Jamie Thomson, Christian Klepp

Jamie Thomson  00:00

You know, maybe it’s a personality thing, but like, I’m not particularly controversial in my marketing and I do think people take that stance, like we are the young upstarts, or we are going to make a point of disagreeing with this company so that we can get engagement, whether they believe what their sort of stance are taking or not. It’s, it’s almost that sort of strategy of, there’s no such thing as bad press, and it’s probably effective short term and that’s why people are doing it. But if you’re looking to build a sort of a future proof business, comes back to that idea of authority being a bit consistency, unless your whole strategy is to be controversial, it’s more of a short term gain tactic. I think strategy is even a strong word. I think it’s a tactic.

Christian Klepp  00:48

With AI making it easier than ever to create content, B2B, buyers are drowning in a sea of digital noise. To rise above this noise, the new differentiator needs to be delivered through authority. More often than not, it’s the credibility of a brand’s messaging that decides whether they’re shortlisted or ignored. So how can B2B companies leverage this and build their credibility? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to Jamie Thomson, who will be answering this question. He’s an award winning copywriter and founder of Brand New Copy who puts strategy at the center of the process to define what the copy should achieve. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is. Okay, and off we go. Mr. Jamie Thomson, welcome to the show, sir.

Jamie Thomson  01:34

Hi, Christian. It’s good to speak to you again. Thanks for having me on.

Christian Klepp  01:38

Great to have you here. I mean, we had such a dynamite conversation. Like, a few weeks ago, I should have, like, hit record on that conversation too, right? Like, yeah, absolutely, Jamie, I’m really looking forward to this conversation because, you know, one of the things that you’re going to talk about today is, like, near and dear to me as somebody that also dabbles in the world of copywriting for B2B, but um, so here we go, right? So Jamie, you’re on a mission. I’m going to say, to help B2B companies to define their messaging, strengthen their positioning and communicate with authority across every channel. So this is really serious stuff here. Okay, so for this conversation, I’d like to focus on the topic of why authority now matters more than visibility and B2B, right? So I’d like to kick off the conversation with two questions, right? And I’m happy to repeat them. First question is, why do you believe authority is important, especially in an age where AI is creeping into B2B content and everything else. And where do you see a lot of B2B brands falling flat with the authority piece?

Jamie Thomson  02:47

Yeah, so I think, I think authority is more important now than ever has been because, like you said, because there’s a lot of like, LLMs (Large Language Models) now kind of doing a lot of the marketing work that was maybe, you know, handled by humans before. I think that you know, sort of the sort of background context to this is that, you know, as Marketers, we don’t have as much control over the visibility of our content as we used to like Google, for example. You now have AI (Artificial Intelligence) overviews. So even if you get to like position one in Google, you’re still at the bottom of the page. Because you’ve got your AI overviews, you have sponsored results, and then there’s the organic listings underneath. And even if you’re position one, you’re still at the bottom of the page earlier. As a result, website traffic has reduced, and people aren’t getting the same kind of like traffic numbers that they used to on LinkedIn as well, like the way that the algorithms are sort of working nowadays. There doesn’t really seem to be any regular reason as to which posts perform well, it seems to be the sort of casual, off the cuff posts that seem to seem to get a lot of attention. There is a genuinely useful, you know, thought leadership stuff has kind of been pushed to the back burner a little bit. So I think authority is important because we don’t have as much control over visibility as we used to, and I think it’s the genuinely useful content that is the stuff that’s going to get shared, whether or not the algorithms are going to push that. So if you have produced a piece of content that has, like, really unique data points that is genuinely useful to other businesses, and it’s get shared online. It’s going to get shared internally between companies, and it’ll get linked to as well. And again, like to answer your second question, and where do a lot of sort of B2B brands like sort of miss the mark? I think. I think the main thing is that they’re the content that they’re producing isn’t genuinely useful. They are a lot of brands across industries that are kind of seeing the same thing as their competitors. And I don’t know for sure, but I have a sort of inclination that is down to LLMs, because they’re kind of relying on like chatGPT for their ideas. They’re asking chatGPT to give them ideas for content. And, you know, chatGPT, it can give you the output, but it can’t give you the input. You know, it’s a technology of averages. So if you’re looking to LLMs for ideation, it’s going to give you the average of what everyone else in industry is saying. So it’s important that your businesses are really doubling down on their ideation and things that make them unique as a company, like their unique selling points, their value propositions, their company culture. You know, the people behind the business, that’s kind of what makes a company’s culture and chatGPT, llms, they don’t really have any first hand experience of that, and it’s such a nuanced thing that you’re never going to get like effective results if you’re asking LLMs for the ideas in the first place. If you’re using it for execution, to help guide style and tone a little bit, then that’s fair enough. But, yeah, it’s important that brands are sort of really doubling down on the ideation. You know, that’s that, I think, just genuine, unique insights that people are actually going to be interested in reading.

Christian Klepp  06:38

Absolutely, I had a couple of follow up questions for you there. I mean, this is great stuff. This might sound like overly, like simplified. I mean, for lack of a better description, but like, just, let’s clear the air here a little bit. Define, from your experience and your own interpretation, define authority, because that also gets thrown around very loosely, I feel almost as, almost as much as the term you’ve got to add value. I mean, like, you know, what does that actually mean, right?

Jamie Thomson  07:09

Yeah, yeah. So to me, authority is about a brand communicating their messages in a consistent way, whether that is the actual content of the messages or the way that they actually communicate it, in terms of brand tone of voice. So authority, to me, is about consistency, more than it is about being emphatic or controversial or overly confident. It’s more about consistency and how they communicate their messages to their audience.

Christian Klepp  07:44

You brought up something there, and I’m going to throw out another question, because I you find this a lot on LinkedIn, at least from my experience, that people put out a lot of pieces. I’m going to just dare to say under the guise of authority, but what it actually is like, just an extremely contrarian point of view. And it’s almost like, you know, I’ve got a I’ve got to just put my thoughts out there, because I want my voice to be heard. But it’s not necessarily authority. It’s just like disagreeing with the status quo. What’s your take on that?

Jamie Thomson  08:15

Yeah, I mean, to me, that’s, that’s kind of it’s almost performance marketing. It’s just performing, if it’s like visibility for visibility’s sake, you know, maybe it’s a personality thing, but like, I am not particularly controversial in my marketing, and I do think people take that stance like we are the young upstarts, or we are going to make a point of disagreeing with this company so that we can get engagement. You know, whether they believe what their sort of stance are taking or not, it’s it’s almost that sort of strategy of, there’s no such thing as bad press, and it’s probably effective short term, and that’s why people are doing it. But you know, if you’re looking to build a sort of a future proof business, it comes back to that idea of authority, being about consistency, unless your whole strategy is to be controversial. It’s more of a short term gain tactic. I think strategy is even a strong word. I think it’s a tactic. It’s not really magic.

Christian Klepp  09:19

Yeah, yeah, I love that. You said it was performance, performance marketing. You know, it almost feels like they’re, they’re, they’re playing the algorithm, or they’re trying to, like, just get more engagement. And it’s true, like, whether they actually believe what they’re saying or not, at least they’re getting more eyeballs on all look what this guy said, Yeah.

Jamie Thomson  09:38

I mean, you see it in so many different ways. Like, a lot of the time, it’s with job postings as well, like, especially for for consulting season freelancers, you see, like you have a potential opening for a freelance position, you know, comment below if you know anyone that would be interested. Then again, I don’t know for sure, but I seems very performative to me. Has that company actually reached out to people directly about the job? Have they advertised on job sites, or are they just posting about it as a potential opportunity for the sake of engagement, knowing that people will be replying and tagging other people? And yeah, it’s that kind of a short term tactic.

Christian Klepp  10:22

Exactly, exactly, before we go on to the next question, I have one final follow up for you on this topic, right? Like so where, where do you do you believe that sometimes things go awry with brands because a it’s about time and speed. They need to get something out quickly. They needed the day before yesterday. And hurry up and let’s, let’s get some, let’s get some volume out there. Let’s get plenty of content out there, right? So one, that’s one thing. The second thing is, do you feel that they missed the mark? Also? Because they, I’m just gonna say it, they just generally don’t understand who the target audience is.

Jamie Thomson  11:03

Yeah, I think you’re writing both accounts there. I mean, you know yourself Christian, how long it takes to produce a good piece of content. It takes research. It’s not something that you can kind of write in half a day. So I do think that’s part of it. There’s that sort of pressure of always having to be seen. And so, yeah, I think, I think people are putting stuff out. A lot of businesses put stuff out either because it’s trending, because they see other people are doing it, or because they have, you know, they’ve asked an early lens for topic ideas as a technology of averages, it’s going to give you ideas that are already out there. So yeah, I think that’s definitely part of it. And then the second part, I think you’re totally bang on with that as well. I think a lot of people just don’t really understand what their positioning is in the industry. I say people, I’m talking about businesses, but at the end of the day, it’s still people that you’re talking to, like even though it’s B2B is business to business, the people making the decisions are still human beings, so your content needs to resonate with them. And I think people now have this kind of detector of when something is has been genuinely thought out. You know, thoughtful content is it’s kind of becoming few and far between because of like LLMs and because people can produce things quickly, and it’s kind of content for content sake. So yeah, I think people just don’t understand their positioning in industry and what their values are, and what stands they’re taking really, kind of just jumping from, you know, from one topic to the next, hoping that something is going to go viral, you know, which I guess they’re hoping will then lead to some sort of business outcome, ie, sales. But the stuff that makes the sales is the stuff that really, that had to be kind of properly thought out, in my opinion.

Christian Klepp  13:06

Yes, oh yeah. Imagine that, wow, properly thought out. Absolutely, absolutely. I’m glad you brought that up, because that’s a great segue into the next question about key pitfalls, right? When we’re talking about like a brand building its credibility and authority. What are some of the key pitfalls that B2B Marketers and their companies need to look out for, and what should they be doing instead?

Jamie Thomson  13:31

Yeah, I mean, I think that the key, one of the key pitfalls that I see as the whole visibility for visibility’s sake, you know, it’s, it’s kind of a vanity metric, in a way that so, like, you’ve made this piece of content and it’s been made 1000 times, or you’ve made the post and it’s been linked by 200 people, you know, and unless that is tied to a business outcome, it’s, it’s just visibility for visibility’s sake. And so one of the key pitfalls is, I think a lot of companies don’t tie their content strategy to their business outcomes enough. They’re kind of chasing engagement because it looks good in reports, so it’s good to stakeholders. But the reality is, unless that content has resulted in an inquiry or a product sale. You know, how successful has it really been? If it was just like a one off, let’s try this, unless it’s part of our strategy, but it’s a one off and it hasn’t really resulted in a sale or an inquiry, then can we deem it to be successful? And that’s up for the business to decide. But think that’s a common pitfall. And I think the second one for me is just what we said before about trends like I see a lot of because I work with businesses across a few different industries, mostly finance, technology, energy and sort of sustainability, and I see a lot of businesses jumping on trends in terms of the things that they’re talking about, like their messaging. It’s almost like one person has started talking about it, and they’re keeping an eye on their competitors, and they think, well, we need to keep up with that. So we need to have an opinion on this as well. And I mean, there’s a time and a place for jumping on trends, especially if it’s something if it’s something that there is an expectation on that company to respond to, like a world event, but it needs to be part of their overall strategy for it to be effective. Otherwise, it’s just, it’s just reactive. It’s kind of fire fighting. It’s, it’s not really cementing any like real foundation for the future. So yeah, those would be my two common pitfalls that I see.

Christian Klepp  15:50

You’ll excuse me if I’m grinning here, but you’re the point you brought up just reminded me of a client that I worked with many years ago. I’m not going to say who it is to protect their identities, but they, part of the briefing was that they asked us to come up with a viral video, okay? And to which I said, you know, respectfully, respectfully, you don’t get to decide if your video is viral. That’s something that the market decides and and believe it or not, Jamie, it was in fact, it was in fact, a B2B campaign. So that that already in itself, made me scratch my head a little bit at the brief, yeah. And it was one of those moments where, okay, well, why are we why are we doing this, what are we hoping to achieve? What’s the outcome? And how is that exactly? How does that tie in, like you said to your business goals, right? And they basically said, Well, everybody’s, you know, something to the effect of all everybody’s doing one so, you know, we think, we think it’ll be good to do this as well. And I think those are one of those moments in my agency, days where we were very confident that we will be okay if we walked away from that project, and we did, we just said, like, Sorry, can’t help you, right? Because I just even in my my wildest dreams, I could not imagine how we would have been able to pull that off, not from a production perspective. Because, you know, if you want to make a video, that’s there’s many ways to do that. I didn’t know how to pull it off from a marketing, distribution perspective. You know what I mean, like,

Jamie Thomson  17:37

that’s stuff that’s kind of out with your control as an agency, as the creator of the content, or even as a business like you said, viral videos are meant to be it’s not really something that’s meant to be manufactured. It’s like a bit of a yeah, there’s just too many anomalies that needs to come together for something to go viral. So it’s a very difficult thing to manufacture without, of course, like paying for views or that kind of thing. You know, I’m a big, I’m a big sort advocate of it. Sometimes what you don’t say that is as important as what you do see, you know, you don’t need to be everything to everybody all the time,

Christian Klepp  18:21

Especially in B2B.

Jamie Thomson  18:22

Yes.

Christian Klepp  18:25

Can you just imagine? I mean, you mentioned a couple of industries now, finance, tech and energy. Can you imagine if you had an energy client now that was also trying to reach out to finance people?

Jamie Thomson  18:33

Yeah, yeah. That’s the thing. It’s like, yeah. Businesses need to understand their audience and but more importantly, they also need to understand their positioning in industry, like, what is? What are they known as in the energy sector? Are they the scrappy upstarts? Are they the established, like an international company, who are respected because, because all these things influence the way that they communicate and and the way that they speak to their audience as well. And you know, if a viral video fits that strategy, then I guess, fair enough, if you can try and manufacture but more often than not, I would say it’s more about being consistent, sticking to the plan. It’s an expensive gamble. It is an expensive gamble.

Christian Klepp  19:22

Expensive gamble. Yes, all right, in our previous conversation, you talked about, you know, it’s the credibility of a brand’s messaging that decides whether they’re shortlisted or ignored. Could you elaborate on that?

Jamie Thomson  19:39

Yeah, I think, I think the sort of credibility anchor comes from the consistency side of things. If you are consistently communicating your messages in a way that is also consistent with brand voice. Then you are more likely to be remembered by people like I think there’s a marketing statistic that that says the average consumer. I know we’re talking about business to business, but people, in general, the average like consumer. They need 12 touch points in order to like for that to result in a sale for a business. And so that could be like, they need to see the same message 12 times before it really hits home, or before they realize that’s something that they need. I’d imagine it’s probably even higher on social media, where people are consistent with schooling. But given that sort of like 12 touch point, like the sort of demonstrates the need for how consistent you need to be in order to have the credibility. And if you’re not being consistent and you’re just saying the same thing as everybody else, then you are essentially becoming like an average brand like everybody else, and that’s forgettable, whereas, you know, the companies that are really sort of digging deep into their own data and their statistics and the signals that we are seeing in the industry that only they have access to, that they can make known in their communications, then those are the ones that are ultimately going to be remembered.

Christian Klepp  21:14

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. And on that note, if you could just walk us through how you think B2B. Marketers can use that messaging and copywriting to establish credibility, especially in the B2B context. We’re always talking about decision makers or buying committees, so we’re not always we’re not just talking about one person, right. We’re talking about, as the name suggests, a committee, so a group of people, right? Yeah.

Jamie Thomson  21:42

And I mean, the way that I sort of generally do it is with clients. I host a workshop, and like during that workshop, we would first of all establish their messaging. So what is it that the business wants to see in the first place? And then we work out, like priorities, what messages are the most important for the specific channels that the business uses. And then you look at like more on the execution side of things like the tone of voice and the style and that kind of thing. But you know, businesses can do this themselves in house, following like a sort of simple three step like formula, essentially just deciding what they want to say, ie, their messages, which messages are the most important and how do they want to communicate? It like with the last part on the execution, that’s where LLMs can be useful, checking grammar, working things from notes, using it like to proof. But the initial idea needs to come from the business. So yeah, I think by following that process, it makes the ultimate like the sort of final content, appear more thoughtful, and people do pick up on that, like that. There’s a reason that reports and statistics and like white papers do well for generating leads. It’s because they’re they are genuinely useful. They’re thought leadership pieces, as opposed to just one person’s opinion, who is maybe the same as someone else’s or the opposite controversy for controversy sake? Yeah, people can really tell when, like, a piece of content has had a lot of thought into it businesses, notice that it’s just that’s the kind of content that resonates with people, like I said before, like, even, even though it’s business to the business, you’re still communicating to people, regardless of who the target audience is and the industry and the demographics, it’s still a person that’s making the decisions as to whether they’re going to use that company’s services or buy their products.

Christian Klepp  23:54

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think another thing that can also be kind of fun to do in B2B, especially with white papers and reports, and what have you is to extract some of those, like nuggets, right? Extract some of those, some of that data. And I’m just gonna throw one of them out there, right? Like many years ago, we worked with a company that did the produced steel. And I can’t remember how much steel they produce, but they said, you know, we produce enough steel that can, you know, it’s enough to, you know, we can wrap the you can, you can wrap around the Earth four times, right, something along that line, right? Or, or even, even at home, like with a with a consumer product, so we have the plastic wrap, and it actually says on the packaging that this can cover an entire football field, right? Just facts where it’s almost like, did you know, or hey, by the way, right? And then you can get into something more serious too, because we, you know, we’re dealing with reports like that as well. Like, you know, last year, last year, most retail brands invested about month. 30% more on AI. And if you’re in the industry, you might be like, Yeah, I kind of knew that they were investing in AI, but all 30% more of their budget. What exactly are they investing in? And, yeah, that’s, that’s why you should download the reports.

Jamie Thomson  25:20

Lots of information in the way that you presented to the public, it becomes interesting. And like, as you know yourself, that’s kind of the job of a copywriter, is to simplify that complex information. Like, you know that the fact that, like, the plastic wrapped around the world four times, like, that’s quite viable. I can visualize that as a consumer, and I think, oh, that’s that’s be cool. But if you just came through the cold, hard stats within context, or that’s sort of like visual with it, it doesn’t really mean much to me. And yeah, that’s kind of the job as communicators. And sort of B2B is to simplify that complex information. Look for the nuggets, and if you have a generally useful report that can be enough to give you, like, months worth of content, like on social media and sort of thought leadership articles, just like expanding on an idea within that report. So yeah, like, it might take a bit of investment up front, initially, to get the data, and get the process for gathering that data and getting the methodology in place. But once, once you’ve done that, and you’ve written the report, and it’s out there that gives you content for potentially months.

Christian Klepp  26:32

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that’s one of the challenges of a copywriter, right? Like, how do you there’s this expression in North America, like, how do you get more juice out of the squeeze, right? So, how do you stretch that? Give it, give it more longevity, right? Beyond, beyond. Well, here’s the report, off you go, right? Like, just like you said, like, stretch it out for you in like, months. You know, have more ammunition for, like, social, media content, you know, promotional content, perhaps even something on the website, something along that line, yeah.

Jamie Thomson  27:07

I said, so the strategy has the words, if you have the strategy in place, then that stuff will follow, because you’ll have thought about it before the report was even published. So.

Christian Klepp  27:18

Yep.

Jamie Thomson  27:19

Yeah.

Christian Klepp  27:19

Yep, absolutely, okay. I mean, on the topic of authority, give us some practical techniques for signaling authority across websites, campaigns and proposals. And I know this isn’t a one sentence answer, off you go.

Jamie Thomson  27:35

Yeah.I think the first thing that comes to mind is taking a stance. And I don’t mean being controversial, but I mean having a clear idea of where the company stands in the industry, like what their positioning is. That in itself, is a useful technique. It’s not something that you can, like achieve overnight, but like with a workshop with someone and getting it all documented, that can give you a clearer sense of purpose as a business. I also think demonstrating, demonstrating expertise, like through thought leadership, content is a really useful technique for signaling authority. You know, if you know as a company, you may not even realize it, but you have access to data that other companies don’t. That in itself is unique, even if you don’t have as much data, or if your data says something different from your competitors, it’s still your day and it’s still useful. And that’s the kind of thing that can be turned into thought leadership content. You know, we’ve discovered that 50% of x, you know, prefers this. That kind of like insight driven. Like content is the stuff that generally performs well because people are naturally drawn to it and they find it genuinely useful. Yeah, I think it’s just that kind of idea of like social proof, like showing that you know what you’re talking about as a business, rather than simply telling people, because that’s what, that’s what, like LLM content tends to do. It makes vague claims that anybody can make, but you know, the proof is in the pudding, that the businesses that actually demonstrate their expertise are the ones that get remembered. And so yeah, that kind of comes through thought leadership stuff, which is data driven, even if as simple as, like social proof, like providing evidence of a case study that you have written with a client, or, like a business outcome that is a signal of authority that shows that you can back up. All the claims that you’re making in your messaging. Yeah, yeah, those would be my kind of, like, top two practical tips.

Christian Klepp  30:12

Absolutely. Well, you’ve laid it out so beautifully. It sounds, it sounds, you know, on the from the outset, like, very easy to do, but we all know that. You know, in reality, it’s, it’s, it’s much more, much more challenging, right? Jamie, I know that you’re, you know you’re, you’re an award winning copywriter, and you’re not a sage, and your job is not to prophesy, but I’m gonna have to ask you to, like, assume that role for a second. All right, looking like just down the road with everything that’s going on now, and, you know, we’ve talked about AI and LLMs and whatnot. Perhaps some practical advice, as we’re now at, you know, at the time of this recording, at the beginning of 2026 what are some advice that you would give B2B companies who are saying like, yes, we would love to build our credibility, but AI and LLMs, you know that all seems to be creeping into everything that we do. Give us some advice on how to deal with that moving forward.

Jamie Thomson  31:18

Yeah, that’s a good question. I think my sort of advice would be to take the time to understand your positioning and to document it. So, you know, it’s that kind of the way that the sort of marketing is going and the way that the industry is evolving. I do think the businesses that are going to like be here in the next 10 years are going to have that like longevity, are the ones that are kind of investing the time and now to understanding where they are positioned in their industry and where they want to be positioned in 10 years time. But crucially, like having it documented so that it’s being used consistently across the business you know from from sending internal emails to writing reports for the public. So from a practical point of view, that’s things like understanding like the business values and how the work the company is doing is a reflection of those values, and how that’s communicated to people. If it’s like a business that’s selling a product, like, what are the unique selling points of the product? What are the benefits to the end users? And how are we seeing that? You know, because in a lot of B2B industries, I think the sort of the strategy of competing on features is becoming a bit redundant. As technology improves. It’s quite difficult for companies to be able to claim unique features, because everybody can has access to the same tools. And so really, what if you flat that on its head, and you kind of look at look at it from the customer’s point of view, whether the customer choose one company over another that’s essentially got the same product or service that’s going to come down to like brand ability, and how much the company is able to like, empathize with the target audience, if they can really understand what their pain points are, then that business is ultimately going to choose that service over another, and that that comes down to, like, having it all documented, you may have, like, an intuition about what these things are, but as your business evolves, your intuition about these things will change and you’ll get scope creep, or you’ll want to jump on trends. If you do have it documented as an internal process, you’re more likely to stick to it in the future. And if you do get to the point that you want to change your positioning in industry, because you’ve maybe you’ve had more success than anticipated, or something in the market has changed, then that in itself should be a process. You should go back to the drawing board and look at what processes you have documented, and think what needs to be changed here before you are reactively moving in a different direction. That would be my advice to put my kind of like futurist cap on that’s, that’s what I would say.

Christian Klepp  34:23

Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s some pretty that’s some pretty solid advice. And, you know, thanks for sharing that. I totally agree. People have to understand their positioning in the market. Most importantly, also, they have to document it. It’s, it’s amazing how many companies I’ve worked with that don’t document that kind of, I wouldn’t call it a projection, but it’s almost like, okay, the positioning, what you know, and their vision, like, where do they what do they aspire to become? Right? I know that sounds like more individualistic, but you can, you can, you know, you can put that into the context of organization as well. Like, what do you aspire to become in 10 years and 20 years? Where’s this business going to go?

Jamie Thomson  35:06

Absolutely, that’s it. Like something doing my own business with clients. Like, if someone asks me if someone’s going if a company is going through a rebrand and they need their website rewritten to reflect the new positioning, like, the first thing I suggest is, well, let’s get a workshop work out what you want to say. I’ll create a messaging guide for you, and I’ll create a total voice guide for you. And then sometimes you get a push back and you say, Well, why do we need that? I guess the answer is, well, I could rewrite your website. I could make it up as I go along, if you want, but not going to be anywhere near effect as effective as it would be if we have all this kind of important stuff documented in the first place, like, you need to have a structure, you have a plan, you have a strategy before the sort of the execution happens. And if you do the first part, well then, like, the actual execution of it, whether we’re talking about writing or or any other sort of like campaign that last 20% almost. It’s just like the icing on the cake, because when you get there, you already know what you want to see, how you want to see it, just kind of need to get, don’t get the content down, whether you’re whether it’s filming, whether it’s from heads key fingers to keyboard, that sort of 20% kind of comes a lot easier when there’s a plan, when there’s a structure in there from the start.

Christian Klepp  36:29

Absolutely, absolutely. Jamie, this has been an incredible conversation. Thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your expertise and experience with the listeners. Please, quick introduction to yourself and how people out there can get in touch with you. And for those that are listening to the audio version of this recording, Jamie and I are actually color coordinated today.

Jamie Thomson  36:53

We were emailing each other before making sure that we were.

Christian Klepp  36:58

That’s it. That’s it. That’s it.

Jamie Thomson  37:01

Thanks very much for having me on Christian like I said, like, I have listened to the podcast and myself over the over the past few months, and I’ve resonated with a lot of the sort of content that, like your your other guests have been putting out there. So yeah, it’s like, really a privilege to be on it. And yeah, like people can get in touch with me. Well, just explain who I am. I mean, my name is Jamie, and I’m a strategic copywriter and messaging strategist. And I run a copywriting studio called Brand New Copy, and I have done since 2013 and I help brands establish their messaging and their tone of voice through workshops and deliverables like thought leadership, articles, white papers, annual reports, website copywriting. And I also provide training to businesses, agencies and other copywriters. And I have a flagship course called the Brand New Copywriting course, which opposite the strategy behind copywriting. So yeah, if you wanted to get in touch with me, the best way would be through email, which is Jamie Thomson at brandnewcopy.com

Christian Klepp  38:13

Fantastic, fantastic. And we’ll be sure to drop those links in the show notes when this episode is published. So once again, Jamie, thanks so much for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon.

Jamie Thomson  38:22

Thanks, Christian.

Christian Klepp  38:24

All right. Bye for now.