Christian Klepp, Andrea Lechner-Becker

Andrea Lechner-Becker  00:00

The first thing that I tell people is, you do have to make sure that your website is visible by the robots. So all your fancy JavaScript looks beautiful, but it is doing you no favors. And so I think that is sort of your first cornerstone, right. Like if the robots can’t see you, then you can’t optimize really anything on site. Let me say this, right. Like GEO (Generative Engine Optimization), the reason that I love this discipline so much is it is a great place for underdogs to win. I am a rooter for the underdog. I am a David fan against Goliath. Right. It is a great opportunity for small companies, and therefore a lot of small SaaS companies will come to me and ask for my advice. And I do draw a line that if you do not have product market fit, you are not ready for GEO.

Christian Klepp  00:48

AI search is dramatically changing the way B2B buyers discover vendors. In many ways, generative engine optimization or GEO is becoming an operational challenge, not just an SEO (Search Engine Optimization) one. B2B companies must learn to adapt to this constantly evolving ecosystem, or get left behind. So, how can B2B teams and marketers move from experimentation to a structured GEO strategy? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast, and I’m your host Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Andrea Lechner-Becker, who will be answering this question. She’s the Chief Strategy Officer at GNW Consulting, helping B2B businesses get discovered via AI (Artificial intelligence) search. Let’s dive in. Okay, and I’m gonna say, welcome to the show.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  01:33

Thank you very much. Happy to be here.

Christian Klepp  01:35

I love how we were like having this long discussion about how do I pronounce your name, and I just went for it anyway. But anyway…

Andrea Lechner-Becker  01:42

I loved it.

Christian Klepp  01:44

I’m glad you did. I’m glad you did. I’m delighted to have you on the show. I’m really looking forward to this conversation because we are going to dive deep into, I guess you could say, a topic that a lot of people are talking about, but not a lot of people are very good at it, right? So let’s keep the audience in suspense a while longer while I set everybody up for our first question. All right. So you’re on a mission to transform the way companies approach discoverability, and when we’re talking about discoverability here, we’re talking obviously about AI search. So for this conversation, I’d like to focus on the following topic and unpack from there, how B2B teams can move from experimentation to a structured GEO strategy. So I’ve got a two barreled question here for you, and I’m happy to repeat. Right, so we’re going to kick off the conversation with two questions. First one is, what is it about GEO that you wish more people understood? And then the second question, what are the fundamental differences between SEO and GEO?

Andrea Lechner-Becker  02:46

Well, you’ve sort of stolen my answer to the first one with your second part there.

Christian Klepp  02:53

My bad.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  02:54

Yeah, I think the thing that I wish more people realized is that GEO is not just good SEO. This is something that, for sure, people were saying in 2025, and even early 2026. A lot of people, mostly people who specialized in SEO, were saying, “Oh, just do good SEO, and good GEO will follow. That has been proven empirically incorrect by lots of studies at this point that show that even on Google’s properties, so Google has your classic organic SERP (Search Engine Results Page) results. So that is, are you on the first page of Google, and how high on the first page are you? And then it has Google AI overviews, and then it has Gemini, and the three of those tools do not operate in the same way. They do not search in the same regard. Getting recommended and/or cited in each one of them requires totally different things. The one report that we always reference estimated. So they did 40 days of queries, which ultimately resulted in 55,000 examples, and they found that on average, only 30% of the results on the first page of Google were also then used in either Gemini or in Google AI overviews. So that’s just how different these engines really operate, and it just bugs the hell out of me when people are like, “Oh, good SEO is good GEO.” Like, no, it’s not.

Christian Klepp  04:25

Yeah, no, no, absolutely, absolutely. You know, you mentioned something that was really interesting, and when you think about it, like there was, what did you say, Google AI overview on Gemini. So when you’re keying something in, and usually it’s like, how do I sort out the power fluctuation issue, right?

Andrea Lechner-Becker  04:46

Yeah.

Christian Klepp  04:48

And then, the search results come out for that. Do you? I mean, obviously the ecosystem’s evolved since the days of SEO. But what do you say to people that feel that all of that is just you know it’s become a. Broader ecosystem where a lot of these components are overwhelming.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  05:04

It is overwhelming. There are a lot of choices that that there’s no getting around that. When we do our audits for clients, there’s hundreds of things that any given company could be doing better, and that’s why prioritization is really the so critical to any of this work. Your first question was, “How do you think about B2B companies? You know, sort of either starting or enhancing their GEO strategy. In my book, it’s all about prioritization. I don’t have a single client with endless budget and time and human capital. Right, like nobody has an endless amount of time and resources to get things done, and so I think the most critical thing anyone can do for their GEO strategy is to prioritize. And so I’ll give you some examples of different ways that people can prioritize, and the it leads to the thing that I love the most about GEO, which is that GEO, unlike SEO, which is another component of your your question, there is a highly strategic discipline. SEO was fairly straightforward. You’ve got on-page optimization both in the content that you create and the technical components of your website. You’ve got backlinking, and that’s kind of it, right? Like to get placed, and you’ve got some EEAT signals around trust, and so EEAT is trust signals for you know are your is you have high domain authority and are your thought leaders trusted as your CEO you know in Forbes and all these kinds of things that are creating a little bit of that node and network component of SEO, but GEO is much much bigger than that, right? GEO is like you know, two years ago we rolled out this new division. We expanded into this geography. We started selling this brand new product or feature set that solves a totally different kind of use case, and the robots, right? LLMs are still seeing us as this old company. How do we get them to start understanding the narrative of our organization? That’s a huge question. And if that kind of a thing, right? If you’ve expanded into new geography, you’ve launched a new product. If those are the things that you want GEO to influence, then you have a very specific subset of things that you’re going to have to do that are very, very different than if you just want your cash cow business to continue dominating competitors. As an example, and like the the the nitty gritty tactics for each one of those is truly night and day. The things that you would do are totally totally different, and I and so I think that that’s where a lot of people struggle. Is there is a paralysis of analysis when you get this data back from all these GEO vendors, and you’re like, my AI visibility is 18. Like, is that good? And like, how do I then slice and dice and actually make some decisions about how I’m going to positively impact this, it is it’s a challenging thing for a lot of reasons. One is the prioritization, and the other is just all of this stuff is shifting constantly. So you know the amount that you should invest in a platform like Reddit changes all of the time based on, and and but it also changes in terms of how the LLMs are operating on it, but again, at a strategic level, I tend to tell people like, you know, this conversation’s happening in Reddit about the best platforms in your category. You should have always been in that conversation, right? Like it was kind of a miss that you weren’t to begin with, and now the LLMs are just exposing how bad of a problem that is for you, but like it never wasn’t a problem. And if you ask me, should we invest in Reddit? I think everyone should invest where their customers are asking questions about decisions on buying them. And so, like wherever that conversation is happening, you definitely need to be there. And the LLM results just show you where that is in such a beautifully simplistic way that it’s much easier to go get funding for it. Is how I see and perceive GEO work.

Christian Klepp  09:10

Right. So it’s not necessarily on on Reddit, but you’re saying like, okay, wherever it is that the customers are hanging out and they’re like searching for solutions or answers to these specific questions they have, right? And you brought up something which is a great segue into the next question about pitfalls that teams should avoid, especially when it comes to GEO. And you probably have a gazillion of them, but let’s narrow them down a little bit.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  09:35

Yeah, I I do think there’s a sprawl that occurs in in results around GEO, and so the first thing that I tell people is, it you do have to make sure that your website is visible by the robots. So all your fancy JavaScript looks beautiful, but it is doing you no favors. There are at this point plenty of technologies and tools that will automatically convert. A very fancy, heavily JavaScripted page into something that’s very simple for the robots into a Markdown file that the robots can read. Cloudflare does this. Adobe’s ABM product does this. So there are lots of technologies that you can now invest in that just do this automatically, which is great because this is the question always for marketing teams like okay now I need a whole new website for robots and agents to read like no you just need to be investing in the right kind of technology that can just do it for you automatically and so I think that that is that is sort of your first cornerstone right like if the robots can’t see you then you can’t optimize really anything on site and I do think that there there was this big like oh the blog is dead commentary happening at the beginning of the year, and some of our clients actually took the very aggressive stance of removing their blog, and we’ve had and when I started working with them, I was like there isn’t yes there isn’t I know there isn’t a worse decision you can make because LLMs do go to your website and see you as the trusted response. So if someone’s going to put your brand name in a prompt, it is going to go to especially ChatGPT will go like site colon and put your website in there looking for responses. So you certainly need to see your website as the one place on the internet that you truly control the narrative, but that does mean that you have really hard decisions to make. I tell everyone you need to put pricing on your website because if a prospect asks an LLM for pricing, the first place it’s going to go to your website is your website. But if it can’t find the answer there, it’s going to go to other places, and if it can’t find the answer there, it’s going to hallucinate an answer. Like no one is not giving an answer to that question, and so I just think it’s a real call to arms for marketing teams and the broader executive team to really have a little have a little come to Jesus about about like you got to be honest with your prospects. You got to be real honest about your competitive differentiators. You got to be real honest about your pricing. You got to be honest about what it’s going to take to onboard a new customer. Like these are all the questions that people are asking. And if your website doesn’t answer them, again, the LLMs won’t leave without an answer. They’ll go to Reddit, G2. They’ll go somewhere and find it in a forum somewhere, or they’ll make it up, and that’s not a great place to be.

Christian Klepp  12:27

No, definitely not, because I have been on the receiving end of that, where just what was I working with Gemini, Perplexity and Claude, and then they just coughed out these price ranges, and I’m like, where did you guys find these? Right?

Andrea Lechner-Becker  12:41

Yeah, hallucinations. Yeah, I mean it, and it’s it’s a very dangerous it’s a very dangerous prospect. And I think that the other the other big thing that B2B companies, a lot of B2B companies have a problem with, especially. Let me say this, right? Like GEO, the reason that I love this this discipline so much is it is a great place for underdogs to win. I am a rooter for the underdog. I am a David fan against Goliath. Right? It is a great opportunity for small companies, and therefore a lot of small SaaS companies will come to me and ask for my advice. And I do draw a line that if you do not have product market fit, you are not ready for GEO because all that will do is communicate out to the robots probably a completely disorienting and terrible message. So I do think that before you scale a GEO program, you absolutely need to make sure that you have product market fit. You understand the problem that you solve, you understand the buyer really, really well. You understand how they’re positioning their problems and their use cases, and how you fit into that answer really clearly. Otherwise, you’re going to invest a ton of money, and it’s going to be chaos. So, I do think you know, for really small companies that don’t yet quite understand their product market fit. That’s too early to start investing in GEO. I don’t think you should do that because you can win, but it’s going to be you’re not going to like the result.

Christian Klepp  14:09

Or I always like to use the the black hole analogy, right? Because if you don’t know what you’re doing, your money’s just going to go.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  14:16

Yeah, yeah.

Christian Klepp  14:18

Sorry, it’s not like like I was slurping on noodles there, but yeah,

Andrea Lechner-Becker  14:21

yeah, yeah.

Christian Klepp  14:22

You get the gist.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  14:23

Yeah, no, it’s you’re absolutely right, right? Like you can you can scale chaos, but that’s not a very good use of your budget. Yeah, yeah,

Christian Klepp  14:30

not a good place to be. Not a good place to be. Why do you think that AI visibility? And you may have mentioned this in our previous conversation, but why do you think AI visibility is becoming a Martech and go-to-market operations issue,

Andrea Lechner-Becker  14:44

I think because the big question that the most common question that I see on Reddit around this topic is how do I measure it, right? And the problem that you have is, as I mentioned earlier, you have a lot of classically trained SEO folks. And SEO’s measurement was super simple. You basically are just measured on getting on that first page of Google, and the higher you go, the better the better your performance because the more impressions you get. And if you’re on the first page of Google, you will get more clickthroughs than you do on the second, third, and obviously 10th page of Google. Right. So the metrics there are really, really simple, and they’re all top of funnel. And so if you get a really good SEO professional, they can coach you through GA for key event creation. They can track you through things like that, and especially if someone is experienced in e-commerce, they can track through how to work, how to manage the funnel again in like a really rapid B2B e commerce funnel. But in the B2B land, I don’t know. I can’t name for you a single classically trained SEO person who’s then going to say, “And here are the campaigns that you need to go build in Salesforce. Here’s how we’re going to make people members of those campaigns, and how we are going to track pipeline over the course of the next three to five years. You know what I mean? Like nobody knows how to do that, and so then whose problem does that become? Rev ops, marketing ops, right? Like this is where the tie-in is. Is it’s all in measurement, and it’s about making sure that we are appropriately tagging people who come in from LLMs, and even simple stuff, right? Like the LLM impact or attribution is very much still the the dark funnel, right? So you do have to use the exact same mechanisms that we’re all used to using if we’re all in ops around the dark funnel, which is self-reported attribution. How did you hear about us on your forum? How did you hear about us on the first call with the sales guy, sales rep, sales guy or gal? Not to be sexist, and so yeah, so so I think we we all are used to that, and that’s why it gets pulled into into ops.

Christian Klepp  16:48

Okay, okay, okay. So, on that note, would you say that AI search and and geo for that matter? Would you say it’s more persona driven versus like back in back in the days of SEO, as you as you alluded to earlier, everybody was trying to like vie for the same keyword, right?

Andrea Lechner-Becker  17:10

Yeah.

Christian Klepp  17:10

And let’s let’s let’s all compete for the same keyword, and it was a little bit more it was a little bit more tactical. I’m not I’m not I’m not implying that there’s no strategy behind SEO, but I I think it’s it’s even more so for AI search. There has to be a solid strategy behind it. It’s not just about it’s it’s not about keywords anymore.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  17:29

Yeah, I love that question. I absolutely think that you need to focus on your buyer and your results. So I have done dozens at this point, dozens of audits, and the results are literally never the same. They’re never, and they’re not even really mostly close. There are certain categories like if you are selling an AI native CRM, those people are on Reddit. You’re talking about very scrappy founders who want to never invest in a big platform like Salesforce. They want an AI-native CRM, and they’re having those conversations in founder and SaaS subreddits. That’s a lot, and and LinkedIn, right? So, like, if you are in that category, your approach looks totally different from somebody selling this huge CDP to enterprise companies and the LLMs that these people use are totally different. The places that they go and that they trust for data and information are totally different. And so your approach needs to be totally different. And in my opinion, I think you can guess at this, but the that is where the GEO results really are the GEO monitoring tools and the results that they present are really incredibly eye opening, 100% of the time, because the it shows you very very specifically here are the sources that the LLMs are trusting for prompts like this and your and therefore your buyers and and again it’s just eye opening. It’s always different, and so I don’t really think that all of these posts on LinkedIn that are like, “Oh, Reddit’s dead, and ChatGPT are all that helpful because in your audience that might be more true than in someone else’s audience. So I I always encourage people like you got to get a GEO monitoring tool early so you can benchmark yourself and really understand. And then, when you see something like that on LinkedIn, go compare it to your real results. Like maybe your Reddit citations did crash in the middle of August, or maybe they crashed a little bit, but like it’s still a platform that you need to continue to monitor. You don’t know until you look at your results,

Christian Klepp  19:41

yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for sure, for sure. You lay that out so beautifully now, and I’m trying to like visualize it in my head because I almost feel for me like AI search is like the the next logical step in this in this evolution, right? Because when you think about it back then, like when you when you googled something, it was usually a keyword. Of some sort, right? Then, then some websites would show up on the first page. But now, with the AI search, you you key in questions, you key in phrases, and then it comes back with an overview, and it breaks it down into like three or four categories, and you can click on each of those segments, and then and then there’s a little window at the bottom that says, “Well, if you feed me with more information, I can actually come up with a with with another recommendation, right?

Andrea Lechner-Becker  20:25

Yeah.

Christian Klepp  20:25

And when when you think about that, like, wow, like 10 years ago you didn’t have that, right?

Andrea Lechner-Becker  20:32

I mean, three, three? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Christian Klepp  20:37

yeah,

Andrea Lechner-Becker  20:38

yeah. And I think you know the the interesting thing too about the GEO work for me is just how quickly it has been adapt adopted, right? And I think that that nothing nothing quite has that. It’s always good when your CEO (Chief Executive Officer) goes and does something and doesn’t like the response. Like I know marketers hate that, but it also is a great way to get funding. Is the truth right? And so I think that as CEOs go into ChatGPT and ask a question like, what kind of and you know insert your category here, right? Like, what kind of accounting software should mid-sized B2B companies be using, and you expect to see you know you’re into it, and you expect to be on that list, and you’re not. That is a good. It’s a it’s a very visceral way to get funding and backing, and it’s very easy to understand, right? Like so many things in marketing are very complex and hard to explain to your CEO and GEO is so easy. Do you do you want us on that short list? If yes, here’s what we need to invest. Here’s how we’re going to measure it, and this and it’s like a very straightforward pitch, actually. So I think that this, although it’s so new, actually getting it to be funded, I find most teams don’t struggle with it because CEOs want to throw money at this problem. They want to be on the short list.

Christian Klepp  22:11

Yes, yes, yes, and and and to varying degrees, you also will have the data to back it up, right? Like if if if the if the LLMs can find it, right?

Andrea Lechner-Becker  22:21

I mean, and like I like I mentioned, right? Like so many people on Reddit seem confused how you’re measuring this, and I really just don’t get it because it’s so straightforward. Like you have Google’s Google Analytics, which everybody just calls GA four. GA four has a source for this. It’s called AI-assistance, and they are categorizing what they can on your website already. So you need to. So, like at a baseline, you don’t even have to set anything up. Google’s already doing this for you. All you have to do is pull it, and you don’t even-you know-you can pull it from three months ago, probably as long as your time frame setup in Google Analytics isn’t a hot mess, which most people haven’t messed with and ruined yet. And so, like, as long as you have the data, you can go pull it right now and see what it is month over month. And if it’s going down, that’s bad. And I just like I some people out in the market are saying that results around GEO take three to six months. I don’t know what they’re doing, but my clients see it the first month that we start doing stuff. It is up into the right. Like once you start updating stuff on your website, the robots pick it up insanely quickly. And I just like I’ll give you another example. So we had a we had a client who needed to sunset an entire subdomain that they don’t use anymore, and it was getting something like 150 citations per week on average, and we were like, “Listen, just sunset it, right? Like it’s hurting you on Google because it has the exact same content as is on your website. Google hates that, and so like it’s just hurting you more than it’s helping you. Just sunset it. Within eight days, it was no longer being cited. Like people talk about the training data that exists in LLMs, and training data does exist, but more and more they’re all using their own querying process, and that’s another thing that a lot of people say. Oh, well, ChatGPT just uses Bing. No, they don’t. They have their own model that they’re building out. They don’t want to be dependent upon any of these Goliaths, right? Like whether it’s Microsoft or Google, they don’t want to be reliant on having to pay them any amount of money or getting sued or any of that stuff. They’re building their own stuff, and so I really just think people vastly underestimate or I guess overestimate how long things are going to take. Like geo work works really, really fast, and all these robots are way smarter than we give them credit for, in like a weird way, but yeah. So I I think you got to move fast in this in this discipline in this world because recency matters a lot for sure to the robots. Yeah,

Christian Klepp  24:52

yeah. I mean, speed’s the name of the game, right? At least in this context. Um. All right. So your company GNW Consulting, you released a report on the state of generative engine optimization in B2B marketing. So, if you could walk us through some of the key findings, because I know there are many, but just some of the key findings, and tell us about one finding in particular that that stood out to you.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  25:16

Yeah, so I was very surprised by the main finding of the report, which is that 92% of businesses of B2B organizations. So just as like a some sample size statistics here. So we ended up receiving just over 300 survey respondents. We ended up keeping around 220. So you’re talking about 220 B2B marketers. This does not include any B2B companies. It would include people that are B2B, right? So as long as there’s some component of B2B in their business, we included them in the in the sample. And 92% of these people report that they are doing something in GEO. They are investing at least some amount of their budget in GEO. Now, the interesting thing about the definition of that is we don’t exactly know what people are taking into account when they’re talking about their GEO budget. Some people have a dedicated GEO budget. They have a person that’s in charge of this. They are thinking about it as its own thing with separate KPIs, and it has a whole ownership. And they’re thinking about it as a complete discipline, right? So you do have people like that, but then you have other people who might be considering content investments in as GEO, SEO investments as GEO. So you don’t exactly know, but 92% of B2B marketers believe they’re already investing in GEO, and the other crazy thing is that 78% of those 92% of people who are investing something in GEO report that there is measurable ROI (Return on Investment). So that’s back to the measurement question, right? So, like, I have never in my history seen a discipline in marketing so new and so fast in saying not only are we investing here, but when we invest $1, we get back to. I mean, that’s not crazy.

Christian Klepp  27:05

That’s like insane.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  27:06

Yeah. So that’s also why I love this because I I do think that the companies that are investing in this and being really smart about what they prioritize and executing really quickly and removing the blockers in the execution, they are seeing outpaced results and winning. You know they’re winning more eyeballs, they’re winning more more customers, and it’s been widely reported-not in my research report, but broadly in the market-that leads, whatever your definition of that is, people who come to your website from LLMs? They convert better. I think the lowest number that I’ve seen here is 3x better than organic Google results, right? And on the high side, you’re seeing like 12x. And I have a client who’s at 12x. So the when we look at their reporting in both, and and they have a B2B to C model. People who come to their website from an LLM convert to the free trial at 12x those who come from Google organic. That’s insane. So if you and like if you think about the amount of money that people have historically invested in SEO, and you’re getting a 12x return on a GEO initiative. Like it’s it again. I’ve never seen some such an easy ROI story to tell to your CFO (Chief Financial Officer) and your CEO. Never. It’s it writes itself.

Christian Klepp  28:42

That’s absolutely wild. You you you might have you might have answered this question already, but like in all of these companies that have seen this type of growth and this type of response because of GEO, did you see a like a like some kind of like recurring pattern in terms of what they did the right way?

Andrea Lechner-Becker  29:00

Yeah, I mean, I do think there’s a lot of conversation about what works in GEO, and it it most of those things are accurate, right? So on your website, the technical components of your website are super important. You need to make sure that you have H2s that are questions, and that then you have the answer right underneath it. And then listicles do work. Listicles can be a little bit of a double-edged sword if you are an incumbent, because what it can actually end up doing is backfiring on you a little bit and putting some of your competitors into the solution set that might not have been there before. But a listicle does work, and many of the LLMs do not care that you are the publisher of that listicle and also on that listicle as long as there is cooperation. So if you are placing yourself on listicle but you’re also on the other sourced listicles, that works. g2 for if you’re in software absolutely matters. You want to try to massage and Manage what is happening on g2, and my favorite strategy there is figuring out what your competitive differentiators are and going after that competitor in your base, right? Like going and finding who moved to your product from that product and coaching them to with talking points. Essentially, that things like that are super important. Reddit does still show up. There’s been again a lot of publicity around ChatGPT’s fallout with Reddit, but it has been very consistent on Google AI overviews. So Google is using a ton of Reddit in both classic organic search results and in its overviews. So being there is still a strategy that I personally recommend to people. The other big thing, I mean, we haven’t talked about video here at all, but by God, video is such a cheat for B2B right now. We literally here’s a here’s here’s a stat right off the presses. Last Monday, I pulled one of my my best cheats for everyone that everyone should run after this podcast and go do. They should go connect their YouTube to Google Search Console. So in Google Search Console, you can add a property and you can add your YouTube. It will give you queries and search volume for terms, just like Google Search did, but for YouTube videos, and this is incredible data. So last Monday, I went and pulled all of our results. There were seven times that the the acronym AEO, which is Answer Engine Optimization, I have tended to use the term GEO. So all of my videos say GEO. I placed for AEO seven times on YouTube last Monday. It was the 14th. I just pulled that, and then I I used it to create a video talking about what AEO tools do. Every single segment in there was one of the queries of the seven that I saw, so I answered these questions of what does all of this stuff do today. A week later, do you want to take? Do you go ahead and take a guess? How many how many queries do you think now are in my YouTube search results for AEO?

Christian Klepp  32:14

200, 300.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  32:16

Oh, that’s okay. Well, that’s not very impressive. You guessed super high. There’s 100. Well, no, it’s no problem. But there’s 106. Okay, is into me to me that’s insane, right? In a week to go from you have seven search results with the term AEO to now you have 106 with one video, one video that’s just laser targeted on the questions people are asking, it will get served up in LLMs. It will get served up in the Google AI overview, and it gets served up on the SERP results in Google too. So it’s just like that kind of speed and impact. Insane, insane.

Christian Klepp  32:59

Wow. Yeah.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  32:59

And that’s just turns, right? So to your point on the a number of impressions, I actually just pulled it before this. I should go look at what the number of impressions are. But like hundreds of impressions on on this, just within a week, it’s insane. So people, if they do that, like I’ve never seen that fail. That approach is…

Christian Klepp  33:22

it’s connecting. So connecting YouTube to the Google Search Console. Okay.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  33:27

Yes.

Christian Klepp  33:28

Interesting. Interesting.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  33:29

Yeah. The data there is absolutely insane.

Christian Klepp  33:32

Yeah. Yeah. All right. I mean, you you you almost you. Thank you. Thank you. You you answer part of the next question, and I’ve got two more before I let you go. But like you know, if we were talking about moving from experimentation, right, for teams from moving from experimentation to a structured geo strategy, what are like some of the the ways that they can do that? Maybe name name three.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  33:58

Yeah, I do think you know, like anything, moving from experimentation to scale, you do more of what works, right? So I do think that the first thing that I encourage everyone to do is you need to remove blockers. This is especially true of enterprise companies who still have very conservative approaches to publication on a website, right? Many rounds of reviews, many people involved, many teams in decision

Christian Klepp  34:28

by committee.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  34:29

Yeah, like you gotta, you you gotta get out of your own way. It’s the reason that a lot of small scrappy underdogs can win against incumbents is because they just move way too slow, and they are the Titanic, and they’re going right towards the iceberg. They’re not going to be able to pivot fast enough, and so I do think that if you have any hope of moving from experimentation to scale, you need to do a lot of change management to get yourself out of your own way and organize people into the right mind. Set that we need to we need to be publishing fast. It’s very important for GEO, and so I think that that’s that’s one thing that I would say. And then the other is that when you remove the blockers, you just need to pour gas on the things that work, right? So like I just gave you an example of that for YouTube. You can now just move that into whatever your LLM is of choice, and just run that report every Monday. Tell me what videos I need to create, and all of like just now I know that playbook works. So just go do it every week on whatever makes sense, and give me 10 ideas of the videos that we need to be creating this week. And you just pour gasoline on the fire. And I also think that you like marketers, like I think a lot of people that I talk to, they’re really nervous about YouTube. They’re really nervous about video in general. They think it’s going to be really expensive. And Mr. Beast has this very famous quote: when people ask him for his advice on video, he says, “Have you made 100 videos yet? And if someone says no, he says go make 100 videos and let me know if you still have questions. Because the answer is is that just by having to do the reps, you will you will figure out what works and what doesn’t. And so I think if you get a little indicator that something works in testing, you need to pour gasoline on it and make yourself a process and continue to learn and focus there, and that’s that’s again back to my prioritization thing. If you find that video results are outpacing your on-site results, guess guess who’s doing more video? You know what I mean? Like that has to be the answer. If you figure out listicles are working for two of your feature sets or your product lines. You need to get them done for all your product lines. So it’s really just like very simple stuff like that.

Christian Klepp  36:47

Wow! Wow. Okay. So definitely doing more of what works. Removing removing those blockers. Pouring gas on the things that are that are working and and and scale them.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  36:59

Yeah. You know, like once once you have something that works, you need to immediately figure out how to operationalize it and get AI to do a lot of the heavy lifting for you where possible, right? Like I’m not a big AI video person in terms of like the avatars or any of that stuff. I think video is a place where people still want real humans to be telling them something, so I don’t love AI solutions to like the actual video production. But some people are into it. I don’t know. Test it. And again, maybe your market, your buyers love it. My buyers hate it. I’m not doing it, but for yours, it might work. I don’t know.

Christian Klepp  37:36

Different strokes for different folks.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  37:38

That’s right.

Christian Klepp  37:38

Right. All right. Well, Andrea, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your experience and expertise with the listeners. Please, quick introduction to yourself and how folks out there can get in touch with you.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  37:51

Yeah, Andrea is my name. I pronounce it Lechner-Becker, which is like way less sexy than Christian did. And I am all over LinkedIn, so I do have a TikTok where, and it’s called GEO is not just SEO because I got a whole bone to pick about that.

Christian Klepp  38:10

I do.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  38:11

I am over on TikTok if you want to come hang out with me over there. But LinkedIn is really my main place, and I am the only on the face of the earth. So, like, as long as you get the spelling right, you will find me because I’m the only one that exists, and I connect with everyone. So, please don’t just follow me. Like, connect with me so you can ask me questions and DM me. I’m very friendly and open, and I give a lot of free advice. I’ve got a lot of thoughts, and I absolutely love this. Again, I think the more marketers I can get into the the and just like an interest level in this, and eventually like working in this discipline, I think we need more sort of full scale marketers rather than just like the SEO bros who really dominate this space. Like I would love to see more classic marketers, demand gen people, brand people, creative people. Like GEO is a really exciting place, I think, for a lot of marketers who are finding themselves a little bit afloat in the sea of like, how do I really incorporate AI? And like, I’m I want to be more strategic, and like AI supposedly is doing all this stuff. Like I can tell you that you know the GEO advice that these GEO tools give around content and what to prioritize. I always hate it. I always have a different opinion, and that’s what my clients are paying me for. You know, so I think it’s a really exciting discipline that I just wish more people would get into and join me and in the conversation and all the things. So I’m over on LinkedIn mostly. Come on over.

Christian Klepp  39:45

Fantastic, fantastic. And you promise not to bite.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  39:50

Yeah. I mean, I’m very straightforward. So you know, I but I’ll try to be nice.

Christian Klepp  39:55

That’s fine.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  39:55

Yeah.

Christian Klepp  39:56

That’s fine. Once again, Andrea. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Take care, stay safe, and talk to you soon.

Andrea Lechner-Becker  40:04

Thanks. It was so fun.

Christian Klepp  40:05

Thank you. Bye for now.