SPEAKERS

Robin Schaffer, Christian Klepp

Christian Klepp  00:03

Welcome to B2B Marketers on a Mission, a podcast for changemakers where we question the conventional, debunk marketing myths, provide actionable tips, think differently, disrupt the industries, and take your marketing to a new level, from improving your campaigns to making you a better marketer. These are the inspirational stories that will help us change the way we think and approach B2B marketing, one conversation at a time. This podcast is brought to you by EINBLICK Consulting, helping you to stand out in the market and drive revenue to your B2B business. And now your host, Christian Klepp.

All right, welcome, everyone to this episode of B2B Marketers on a Mission. This is the show where we help you to question the conventional, think differently, disrupt your industry, and take your marketing to new heights. This is your host Christian Klepp. And today I am joined by someone on a mission to help B2B companies build relationships with industry analysts. So coming to us from Rockaway, New Jersey, USA. Robin Schaffer, welcome to the show.

Robin Schaffer  01:11

No, thank you, Christian. It’s so nice to be here.

Christian Klepp  01:16

Great to have you on the show, Robin. And I’m really looking forward to this conversation. I was thinking about this just before we hit record. But in the more than three years that I’ve been running the show, I think you’re the first person that I’m going to interview about this topic. So Whoo, let’s keep everybody in suspense a while longer.

Robin Schaffer  01:33

That’s great. I’m so glad you have me on, because it’s an important topic. And one that’s very misunderstood.

Christian Klepp  01:41

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And the objective of the exercise here is not just to educate people, but also to get them to take action, I think is very important as well. So without further ado, let’s dive right into it right? You’re quite the expert when it comes to helping B2B companies achieve what you call radical results, using innovative, pragmatic, and highly effective methods, right. But for this conversation, let’s narrow it down to a topic that I think is part of your professional mission. And that’s how B2B marketers can benefit by building relationships with industry analysts. Okay, I’m gonna kick off this conversation with a two pronged question. All right, I’m happy to repeat. First question is, what exactly does building relationships with analysts entail? Number one. And number two, why should B2B marketers care about that?

Robin Schaffer  02:37

Okay, that’s a great question. Relationships, in the terms of analyst relations is very interesting. I once met an analyst relations expert that bragged about having five analysts at his wedding and having such a great social relationship. And that’s not what we mean, by having relationship. With an analyst, or relationship, as the core helps them understand you and helps you change their perception of you from just an ordinary vendor one in the pack, to somebody that they really understand. They really advocate for sacred things, right, good things. So you want to have that relationship based on mutual respect, learning, talking, understanding, challenging each other. And that leads to that, that kind of advocacy. And the reason you want that is because analysts are among the most knowledgeable and influential forces in the market. And when you have a strong relationship with them, you do well in like the ranking reports, like the Magic Quadrant, and they also get to, you know, other coverage. And they also mentioned you to buyers, because what happens is if you build a strong relationship with industry analysts, they remember you, and they understand not only what you do, but who you serve. And analysts have these consultative kind of conversations with technology buyers. And when a buyer is talking about a problem and talking about needing to solve it, maybe not even talking about a vendor, but talking about the problem, the analyst is likely to think of you because they recognize the problem that you solve, they recognize the audience that you support, and they will mention you, have you ever thought of or looked at this particular vendor. And that is a win win. I mean, that’s really, you know, the brass ring that you’re really trying to get and that comes from developing that kind of strong relationship.

Christian Klepp  04:52

Those are some really great points and thanks for bringing those up. I had two follow up questions for you. Okay. Would you say that you could compare this outreach and nurturing this relationship with industry analysts could one liken that to nurturing relationships with journalists and media?

Robin Schaffer  05:11

Yes, definitely, there’s a lot of parallels, but there’s a lot of difference. Okay. So one of the things is that relationships with journalists tend to be more transactional, okay, they tend to be… The journalist wants a story, the journalist is about now. It is about scooping, it’s about getting that story out there and for the readership, and there’s looking at it from a very current, you know, tell me about this right now. So I can write about it. And the journalist often has a very, very broad understanding of technology, they cover a beat, they cover, you know, they’re not real specific. So don’t go deep. So you don’t generally with a journalist, try to build that kind of ongoing, restrict productive relationship, because with an analyst, you want to get information from them. Also, you want to learn from them. And you don’t do that with journalists. So that is really the difference. The similarity is that you’re telling your story to someone who you want to then convey your story further. You’re right. And there’s a similarity there.

Christian Klepp  06:23

Yeah, no, that’s really that’s really interesting. And yeah, absolutely. So the relationship with a journalist is more transactional. And would you say that one with the analyst is hopefully more long term? Yes. It’s not just a one off like, right? Yes. Okay. And definitely we might, we might talk about this later. But just, you know, as a follow up to that question, is it also important for B2B marketers to craft some kind of, I don’t know if you can call it a pitch, but if they’re gonna do an outreach to analysts, but they have to have some kind of approach in life.

Robin Schaffer  06:57

Absolutely. And that’s something I spent a lot of time coaching my clients about, because they have to, there’s an analyst briefing, as always, with a deck, and you’re always educating the analysts about yourself. And what I do with a new client is I have them give me their sales decks, their investor decks, you know, all the decks, all the ways that they present themselves, so I can get their core story. And then I massage it, and collaborate with them to create the way they would tell their story to an analyst. Because what you want to do is Wow them, you want them to come away and say, Wow, this is a very interesting vendor that I want to know more, I want to have an ongoing relationship with, I want to understand, I want to see a demo, let me know about this, I have questions, I want to get together again. Right? That’s really what a pitch has to do is create that relationship, and you have to give them all kinds of information. One of the things I do in that pitch that I think is a is a strong best practice that I really push with all my clients is you start with just a very, very short descriptor, non-marketing descriptor of who you are in the space you’re in, just so they understand. Very short. And then you say, let me explain that in the guise of a customer story. And you start off right away, telling a story, not a case study, it’s a difference, you tell a story. So we went into this client, and we met with Christian and he had these problems and these emotions, and this was the experience. And this was what we tried to come and bring in and solve for him. And now he was able to take the solution. And he became a hero. And this is, so you tell a story, which is extremely engaging. And through the story, you’re talking about your solution, but you’re doing it through the through the eyes of a customer, which is very engaging to an analyst. And often we don’t even get beyond that story. That story grips them and they want to know more. And you end up telling a lot of what you’re going to do in their formal presentation through the story.

Christian Klepp  09:21

Yeah, that’s very interesting and very pertinent. And, you know, going back to your point, or at least I believe that was your point. Make the customer the hero of the story, not your company.

Robin Schaffer  09:32

So true.

Christian Klepp  09:33

And I’m glad we brought that up because that’s such a great segue into the next question, which is talking about common pitfalls to avoid when building relationships. And you probably have more stories about these than you care to count but just give us some top level wants to avoid.

Robin Schaffer  09:49

Yeah, common pitfalls is, you know, I think you’ve heard a million times is just talking about your product, talking about your solution, talking about yourself. A common pitfall is starting a deck with here are our founders and here are offices and here are, you know, here… us, us, us, us, us. Nobody cares about who you are. And you can’t prove validity, you know, validate yourself in front of an analyst with facts. So that is a common pitfall is starting with that information. And I was putting it at the back after you convince them what you do, why you do it, and that you’re important. Now I want to pay attention to who you are. And you know, that’s those facts. Another thing actually, that goes back to the PR, the journalists comparison. The another pitfall is to expect reciprocation. So when you pitch a journalist, you’re looking for an article, because they’re not…  there’s no purpose in doing it unless they produce some coverage. With an analyst, there is no, nothing that’s going to come out of it right away. It’s not you’re expecting them to write something, you’re building a relationship that will lead to some mentions in reports, or in an evaluation report like a magic quadrant or a wave, or buyer mentions and recommendations. But it’s not like I briefed and then I’d get something out of it. It doesn’t work that way.

Christian Klepp  11:24

Okay, no, fantastic. So you brought up a couple of these common pitfalls or misconceptions that people should be looking out for. Is there anything else that you wanted to add?

Robin Schaffer  11:34

Well, I think one of the common misconceptions that I come across all the time with smaller vendors, is thinking that working with analysts has got to be expensive. Because you know, some of these big firms come along and try to get you to do big contracts. And that’s not the way I think you start, you start, there’s a lot of things you can do. Even if you’re just building your MVP, you don’t really have a lot of customers yet, you’re very early in the process. There are ways to start engaging with the analysts early, it does not have to take a lot of effort. It doesn’t have to take money. But I’m often coaching customer, coaching vendors, on how to use analyst relations early in the process and not wait until you can afford, you know, make a big investment.

Christian Klepp  12:29

Yeah, well, those are definitely some really important points, that you know, back to what you were saying it’s almost, there’s so many analogies, but it’s almost like planting something in a garden, and you know, you expect it to grow the next day. I mean, it takes it takes time.

Robin Schaffer  12:43

It takes time, it takes time. I always try to look because, you know, it takes time, it’s not something that busy executives want to hear, right? So I really always say, let’s break down, we know where we want to get to eventually, let’s break down into little things that will get us there that we can measure and show progress. So for example, we evaluate the analyst response. Right, so the speaker is talking and based on the way they ask questions, how engaged they were, you know, clear, hey, this is great kind of comments, we score the analysts reaction to each briefing. So we can see, we know if we keep getting high scores, that’s going to lead to that coverage. So that’s something we can measure right away. And start to coach and train and lead and you know, work towards, so breaking it down. It is long term, but you can break it down into some things you can watch and see the relationship growing.

Christian Klepp  12:55

Absolutely, because love it or hate it at some point. You’re gonna have to prove to somebody higher up that you’re making progress.

Robin Schaffer  14:02

Absolutely.

Christian Klepp  14:03

This is working and you know, the everyone’s favorite questions all you know, like Robin, what, what did we spend all this money on? Like, what are what are the results? Right? What results are you going to generate for us and when and how fast? How quickly? Right?

Robin Schaffer  14:17

And it’s very hard to show that a lot. You have to show it in these small pieces, because the big result is your phone’s ringing because some analysis mentioned you and your that customer is calling to inquire about that and that leads to sales opportunities, coverage and people see your brand and you know different things like that is the big things that you’re working towards. So you want to get aligned with them. And you really want to set your analyst relations plan within your business plan, right? You want to look at what you need to do as a business. So my favorite question or not you know, I always ask every client And what are your must-do’s for the business forget analyst relations, what are your must-do’s in the next 12-18 months? Okay, got those, and then look at what analyst relations can do to move those needles, maybe they can’t hit all of them. But look at everything we do through that lens. Because if we’re not moving a significant, important objective of the business, it’s not worth doing. So there’s a lot of analyst relations activities that are nice to do, I want to do the ones that are really going to make a difference.

Christian Klepp  15:35

Absolutely, absolutely. And on the point of a plan, talk to us a little bit about that. Talk to us about the importance of conducting the right research, and having an actual plan when it comes to industry analysts outreach, because you and I both know that you can’t just wing it, and just spray and pray. That approach is not going to generate the most desirable results for lack of a better description.

Robin Schaffer  16:03

Absolutely absolutely. So, you know, you’re looking at the end game that you’re trying to get to. And it starts with, you know, understanding the business objectives in depth. But then there’s a quite a bit of research that goes on to identify the analysts, and the reports and the outlets that matter. So we do a lot of research to see what people are reading,  what people are publishing, who’s reading it, how much influence those people have. And try, we take a guess, at the top tier analysts based on all this research and analysis that we do. So what we do is we might come up with a list of 100 analysts, and then we’re going to that relevant 100, 150, that are relevant to what you do to your space. But then we’re going to do a lot of research to say we think these seven are the ones that matter. And we say we think because we can’t know until we start engaging with them, and start, you know, getting into in more in depth and seeing their futures and so forth. So the reason we do that is because a plan should be around giving a lot of love to the most important analysts and a lot of focus, and we kind of bifurcate or our plan into two things, the tier one analysts get proactive outreach as often as we can make it happen. And that’s through briefings and inquiries, where we are informing them everything about our business, we’re asking them questions or engaging in dialogue, we’re having these, you know, that’s what creates a relationship is that frequent engagement and, and being… showing up, you know, showing up the way you need to show up. And then the other thing is, which reports. Now, the obvious ones on the magic quadrants and the waves, and you know, what you know, try to really identify the reports that are relevant to your space that are out there. And then of course, the analysts that write those reports, you know, get top billing. And then the plan needs to be that proactive engagement with those top analysts where we try to make sure we touch them once a month in some way or another, and then you have everybody else. So what I’ve said, bifurcated, you got top tier, and then everybody else, everybody else you do in a one to many. And you do things like newsletters and webcasts, you know, web briefings, and, you know, staying in touch with them. But you don’t, you don’t do a lot of one on ones with that when they bubble up. And they say, I’m really working on a report, I’m really interested in this topic, I really want to talk about it, then you know, you engage with them. But you try not to because that dilutes your impact on those top tier analysts because your spokespeople only have so much time and energy to do this right. And you want that done right with the top analysts. So then what we do is once we identify those things, we train the spokespeople, all that stuff. We set out the plan of who we’re going to meet with each month and what we’re going to do with them. We also do for those top analysts engagement plans, what’s the relationship? What did they think and what did they do right now? We have no relationship. They think we stink you know, they do nothing. They say bad things about us. What do we want to have in a year and we paint the vision of where we want to be with them in a year. And then in the middle are all the engagements that we want to have with them to make that change happen, because analyst relations is fundamentally change management or perception management, change the perception of the analyst to get those good things to happen. And you need to… what do you need to do? You know, do you need to brief, and do inquiry strategy sessions, work with them on a webinar? You know, what are all the things you need to do to get that time with them to make that change happen?

Christian Klepp  20:26

Well, that’s fantastic. That’s fantastic. I’m glad you brought up change management, that’s such an interesting way to look at it. Change management also probably requires facing resistance or facing pushback, which leads me to my next question about how, and you’ve probably encountered this many times, how can you get buy-in internally to conduct this type of outreach? Because there’s probably people in the organization that A) don’t understand what that is? Yes. B) Because they don’t understand it. This is the dangerous part because they don’t understand what it is they think it’s a complete waste of time. So over to you, how do you address that?

Robin Schaffer  21:07

Well, the thing that gets everybody’s attention is the data that shows that 75% of enterprise technology decisions are made with an analyst, have an analyst involved. 75%. And then they mean reading one of the reports, that may mean consulting with them, it may mean, you know, regular engagement with the analysts to help them make decisions, but they’re involved in some way. So guess what, in 75% of your enterprise deals, they’re involved, whether you’re playing or not. And guess what the vendors that understand that, and develop the relationships, and show up and present and get that analysts to understand their their story, their sweet spot, their strengths, get them analysts to help them solve problems, because guess what, if an analyst helps solve a problem for you, they become an… you know, you do something that they suggested they become your best friend, because how can you not love a company that does what you suggest? It just creates a bond? So there’s all of this stuff that goes on. And ultimately, you want those 75% of deals influenced in your favor.

Christian Klepp  22:28

Absolutely, absolutely. So get the buy-in using data and using well, using facts or selling them that long term vision of what benefits this could bring to the organization?

Robin Schaffer  22:40

Yeah, I mean, I like to bring it down to that. Because one time when I was having a problem, convincing executive, I worked with the top most influential analyst in the market. And I said, of your buyer conversations, how often do you talk to a buyer, where what we do is irrelevant, not where you talk about us. But you know, you may talk to about a about a competitor, you may talk in general about the technology. And he said, I have four to five calls a day that, you know, that meets that criteria. So I said look at all those opportunities that they could be mentioning our name, and talking about us and talking possibly about us. And if we’re not there, we’re missing out on all that activity.

Christian Klepp  23:33

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, Robin, you brought this up earlier, but I’d like to go back to it and kind of unpack it, if you will, this conducting outreach with industry analysts, and basically composing this or developing this pitch, for lack of a better description. Talk to us about what should be in this pitch in order to get it right. Well, maybe not get it right. But to have a more effective outreach with better results.

Robin Schaffer  24:01

Yes, yes. So I talked a little bit before about how my preference I think that works… what works well is to tell a story, a customer story right at the beginning, because that captures attention. And that’s great because analysts want to understand the value you deliver. And you can have a million spots about the value you deliver and how you do that but tell it through a customer story. We delivered this value and then maybe you need some slides to expand on that because one story, of course, doesn’t capture everything that you do. So Alice wants to know very much the value you deliver, how you do that, right. So they do want to know what’s behind, what’s under the hood. What is your you know, your special capabilities that you have in your solution. They want to understand that they don’t need to deep dive. They don’t need to go into the weeds, but they do need to know enough to understand what’s different about you, how you’re different than the competition, they do not need an overview of the market. And this is a big mistake that most people tend to make, right? With customers and investors, you need to explain the dynamics of the market. With analysts, you do not need to do that. It’s insulting when you do, let me tell you about this market, which you are, by the way, an expert on, I’m going to teach you about it. So you may want to have a short, almost a head nod session, like Oh, as you know, these are some of the dynamics that we see, I just want to confirm that we’re seeing the same thing. But you’re not explaining them, right. That’s a big thing in the briefing. They want to know your go to market, they want to know how you’re going to get business. And they want to understand your your, your marketing, your sales team. Maybe if pricing is interesting, they want to understand that. And they want to understand the futures, the futures, the roadmap futures, but also as the business you know, we’re going if you’re going into different verticals, or different regions, or building different kinds of partnerships, and then from a product perspective, what’s next, what’s coming. And that’s also a place they recognize them and ability to help and give feedback. So I think those are the major things. I always like to throw in, by the way, before you talk about exactly what you do and your capabilities, to talk about… You can look at it in a couple of ways, like maybe your mission, like why you do what you do, and your philosophy about what the world needs that has led you to developing these capabilities. We believe the world needs this, therefore we develop this. So you’re you’re explaining your solution in the context of a belief system.

Christian Klepp  27:07

Yeah, that’s a very, that’s a very comprehensive approach. I almost like to compare it to back when I was starting out as a junior product marketer. And you know, we have to do copious amounts of market research. And the lady that was mentoring me at the time said, you know, whenever you are presenting, what you have researched, and you’re presenting this compelling argument to get approval, right? You basically funnel it down to two questions that you need to answer. Why? And so what? Right?

Robin Schaffer  27:41

Yes, yes. You know, that just reminds me the one thing that I didn’t mention, when I was kind of unpacking the briefing, so called a briefing, as opposed to a pitch. I mean, it’s just subtle language difference, is I always encourage clients to end the deck with three to five summary points. And that seems obvious, but it’s sort of like, don’t leave it up to the analyst to come to those conclusions, feed it to them, feed to them, what you want them to remember about you. And especially, this goes back to that go to market, who that target customer is that you’re after. And if you can paint a picture of the kind of problems and, you know, demographics and factoids, so that when that somebody comes in the door, they say, ding, ding, ding, they recognize this is a great client for you, and you want that to happen. So the summary has to give them all that. So I’d say, if they remember nothing, make sure you give it all to them in the summary.

Christian Klepp  28:53

Yeah, yeah. 100% agree with that. All right, we’re gonna move on to the next question, which is, it could be slightly controversial, depending on who you know, who you ask, but artificial intelligence, right. It’s kind of unavoidable like it is. It’s spread across different industries in different facets, and it affects almost every aspect of our work as marketers. So here comes a question. Do you think that AI should be used in industry analyst outreach? And if yes, how?

Robin Schaffer  29:29

Okay. That’s a great question. I wrote a book, by the way, analysts on analyst relations, where I asked analysts their opinions about all kinds of things, but I have a whole chapter on AI, because I just… not to answer your question, but just from the owl’s perspective, they’re kind of the ultimate knowledge worker. And I wanted to know, how do you see your job changing with AI? And I got some very, very interesting answers to how they see their job changing and to deliver information in new ways and support AI, the reality that AI is out there in new ways. The question you asked is more about the outreach to the analysts, and how that can be supported with AI. I think the biggest area that I’m exploring with my team is if I had a magic wand, which I do with AI, but I’m not sure exactly how to use it, yet, we’re experimenting with it, I would be able to look at an analyst and summarize all the points he’s made and his point of view on a space, and even on vendors, but really on a space, he believes, or she believes these things based on this research and these inquiries we’ve had in these discussions we’ve had, and I think AI has a great ability, because you’re just plowing through research reports, and, you know, trying to come to conclusions. And I think AI can scan the market to help you understand an analyst, what you’re what you’re, you know, how to position with them, and how to, you know, be there and impress them and talk to them, or understand a little things like what you call an apple, they may call an orange. Right? So how do you use terminology, you know, in a way that fits them if they believe something that is contrary to your beliefs. And you can extract that and come to a meeting, knowing that you can articulate a physician and hopefully change their mind, you know, about how they see that. But you know, analysts are so prolific and there’s so much content out there that I think AI can help in the summary and intelligence that the analyst is offering.

Christian Klepp  32:08

Yeah, no, that’s, that’s definitely very interesting. I mean, it sounds like it can help you save some time in conducting that research, most of which will probably be done online, it will help to also aggregate the data.

Robin Schaffer  32:22

Exactly.

Christian Klepp  32:24

There’s one tool, I believe there’s probably several where you can drop in a PDF document, and it will just extract the insights. Right.

Robin Schaffer  32:33

Exactly.

Christian Klepp  32:34

What would have taken, you know, a member of your team, probably several hours can be done in a couple of…

Robin Schaffer  32:40

And that’s what I, that’s what I see. Because part of analyst relations, an elevated part of analyst relations is not just, you know, building that relationship, but learning from analysts, the whole learned side, and there’s so much knowledge that can be shared within a vendor, which was an accompany based on not about you, but it based on the space and the analysts research, and providing that being a source of knowledge for the organization is a very powerful place that analyst relations can hold.

Christian Klepp  33:18

Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, Robin, here comes the soapbox question. So get out there.

Robin Schaffer  33:24

Okay.

Christian Klepp  33:26

Just narrowing it down to that topic of industry analyst outreach. What is the status quo in that particular area that you passionately disagree with, and why?

Robin Schaffer  33:37

Okay. I think the greatest one… there’s a lot, but I think the greatest one is when… the status quo is that people only look at analysts relations for the marketing and sales impact that I can give, which is significant. And I don’t want to downplay that at all. But like I said, earlier, there’s this whole learning side from analysts. And if you are an organization that can be agile, and can listen to the feedback that analysts give you. Sometimes they say your baby is ugly. Sometimes they suggest capabilities for your roadmap, sometimes like they suggest new kinds of partnerships or new markets you can go after, they are a source of great wisdom because they sit at the cross currents of customers, other vendors, studies or trends, and they really have a very unique perspective. Not all of them, but the good ones. Right. And your job is to find the good ones. So find the ones that really know. And I think you know, I’ve worked in too many companies. It’s sort of almost a litmus test, can accompany take in that kind of feedback, absorb it and do something with it. So I would say it’s like, listen, learn and act with analysts. Listen to them. And some people just don’t really listen to what they have to say. Learn from it, and act when it makes sense not doing everything they say, but evaluating things and taking action to improve your business, which is what they’re about. And I said before, when an analyst has made a suggestion, as you have implemented, guess what, it helps so much with the relationship. So not only have you gotten improvements in your business, you’ve now got a really strong advocate, and the analysts because you did something they said, and they love you for that. Right? They feel so much pride, and they feel like closeness to you because you, you know, let them in and help your business. So I think just seeing the marketing and sales impact of the Magic Quadrant or something is important, but the most of the status quo misses this whole other side of AR.

Christian Klepp  36:09

Right, right. No, that’s interesting. It’s a, it’s got to be some kind of, like, mutually beneficial relationship. Ideally. Right.

Robin Schaffer  36:19

And that’s what, that’s where I think that the executives that question it, or not recognizing that mutuality, you know, that recognize the potential of that.

Christian Klepp  36:31

Or partly also, probably because they don’t understand it.

Robin Schaffer  36:34

Yes,

Christian Klepp  36:35

Right.

Robin Schaffer  36:36

Yes.

Christian Klepp  36:37

Okay.

Robin Schaffer  36:38

I agree.

Christian Klepp  36:39

Here we go. Here’s the bonus question.

Robin Schaffer  36:42

Oh, boy.

Christian Klepp  36:42

Okay. So I saw you put up a video on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago, or you were singing up on stage. Was that your own song? Was that something that you compose? Or was that somebody else’s song?

Robin Schaffer  36:55

That was my song.

Christian Klepp  36:56

That was your song.

Robin Schaffer  36:57

I was very brave to put it up on LinkedIn. But that was my song.

Christian Klepp  37:01

Fantastic. Fantastic. So I’m glad you gave that answer. Because here comes the question. All right.

Robin Schaffer  37:05

Oh boy.

Christian Klepp  37:06

So if you were given the opportunity to perform onstage at a venue, anywhere in the world, and they asked you to sing that song, where where would you perform and why?

Robin Schaffer  37:22

I would probably perform in my living room because I hate performing (laugh)

Christian Klepp  37:31

Of all the answers you could have given!

Robin Schaffer  37:33

Yeah, you know, really, I, I get very nervous performing. And I get very uncomfortable. I haven’t mastered that ability. I actually started songwriting as a creative outlet. And then once I had written a bunch of songs, I kind of said, well, nobody else is gonna sing them, I better learn to perform. So I learned to perform as a consequence of actually writing songs. But where is the best ME, the ME that likes to perform every once in a while? Oh, Carnegie Hall. I would just love to be at Carnegie Hall with that acoustics and that, put that on my resume.

Christian Klepp  38:14

It gets pretty close to your living room, wasn’t at Carnegie Hall?

Robin Schaffer  38:18

Yeah.

Christian Klepp  38:18

(laugh) Fantastic. That’s a great answer. I mean, you know, short of stating the obvious Carnegie Hall is an excellent venue. Okay, Robin, this has been such a great conversation. Thanks again for your time and for sharing your experience and expertise with the listeners. So please, quick introduce yourself and how folks out there can get in touch with you.

Robin Schaffer  38:40

Well, definitely come to my website, SchafferAR.com. And I’m very active on LinkedIn. I love to engage with people on LinkedIn, connect with me as much as you can, and my email is Robin@SchafferAR. And I just love talking about AR, as you can probably sense from this interview. And I love talking with companies with vendors that are you know, trying to figure out if and how they can make this work for them because every situation is different. So I really encourage people to reach out and we can talk.

Christian Klepp  39:23

Absolutely, absolutely. Robin, once again, thank you so much for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon.

Robin Schaffer  39:31

All right, thank you.

Christian Klepp  39:32

Okay. Bye for now.