Andrea Ness, Christian Klepp

Andrea Ness  00:00

People usually don’t convert on the first ad exposure that they see. So you really, really do want to make sure that there are so many other ways that they can get to that information. Advertising helps. But you know, like, like, if you look at you know what your journey is. And really, it’s a great exercise if you don’t have a customer journey, like, laid out on paper and really, and looking at that, not just for paid media channels, but also, you know, like, here’s what we’re doing, foundational like that owned media, you know. And then here’s what you know earned media is doing that they’re really pushing out. And here’s their focus.

Christian Klepp  00:31

The fundamentals of effective B2B Marketing have not changed, but in 2026 many brands are losing sight of them as platforms become more crowded and ad costs continue to rise, organizations are increasingly over investing in paid media while under investing in the strategic groundwork that makes paid campaigns perform. This imbalance leads to wasted spend mixed messages and weaker results, just as audiences are becoming more selective. So how can B2B Marketers leverage paid media to drive more efficient, sustainable growth? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking to Andrea Ness, who will be answering this question. She’s the head of media at DDM Marketing and Communications, where she helps drive digital marketing initiatives for B2B organizations, tune in to find out more about what this B2B Marketers Mission is. Andrea Ness, welcome to the show.

Andrea Ness  01:29

Very good to be here.

Christian Klepp  01:30

Really good to have you on. I mean, you know, we’ve, we’ve had such a great free interview conversation where we, we laughed so much about all these random topics, and that was already, like, very telling of, like, what’s to come. But I’m, I’m really looking forward to this conversation. It’s, it’s a very pertinent one. I think it’s something that B2B marketing teams really need to be paying attention to as they move forward. At the time of this recording, at the beginning of 2026 All right, so let’s, let’s jump right in and start the interview. So, Andrea, like for you’re on a mission, I would say, to help B2B companies deliver high impact marketing campaigns that drive measurable results. For this conversation, I’d like to zero in on the topic of how rethinking the role of paid media can drive more efficient, sustainable growth. So I’d like to kick off the conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them, right? So question number one, why do you think paid media should function as an extension of brand trust, rather than the centerpiece of a marketing strategy? And the follow up question is, where do you see many B2B Marketing Teams struggle.

Andrea Ness  02:44

All right, I will start with round one, but with the first one, usually, when someone hears media campaign, they go straight to, like the media teams and like going to tactics where, like, where we really want to back up and just say, you know, paid media works as it to amplify the message that you’re trying to put out there, not to create the message. So if you don’t have that, those strong messaging and those components in place, or what we like to say at your house in order, you know, like we’re not going to be the best at creating the message, but only taking really resonating messaging and putting it out to the world. So it we call paid media more like a distribution engine. And it’s not the message itself, you know, and it’s also, you know, to really, really underline brand narrative is, if their your brand narrative isn’t strong, your paid media just amplifies people to get confused. One of the things that we like to talk about with clients is that audiences see 1000s of messages every day, you know. So like, even if we might be in the right channels, you know, with everyone else, if it doesn’t resonate, if it doesn’t align, you know, if it doesn’t connect and strong, then they’re just trying to pass it by with hundreds and 1000s of others. So really, really, what is that message component? What are you trying to tell them? When are you trying to tell them that? And then we just use paid media, the tactics for paid media, just to make sure that we’re amplifying that message to the right people. So that’s with your first question, what your second one was,

Christian Klepp  04:14

Where do you see a lot of based on based on that, like, where do you see a lot of B2B marketing teams struggle?

Andrea Ness  04:20

So one of the things we keep on we keep on hearing over and over again, because again, you know, I know clients like, really like, their focus on revenue. They’re focused on the end goal. But you know, when we hear a lot of times, when we hear like we need, you know, consistently, more leads, more conversions, more revenue. We got to go straight to the end when what we’re thinking about like, and what we have to bring clients back to is like, what is that customer journey? And, you know, like for us to be able to move them through the funnel, we can’t just go straight to the end and asking them to do something when they don’t even have that trust, or they’re not even, you know, in the consideration journey yet. You know, so with with B2B, especially like consumers, sometimes it’s a quicker side cycle. But with B2B, you know that your cycles are could be like six to 18 months, even longer. So if you’re not talking to them throughout each of the journey and building that trust along the way, you know we’re going to be losing them if you go straight to like, you know, do this and, you know, give us your contact information. We learned, especially now, especially with new generations of people. They don’t like always. Like filling out forms. They like to do their own research in many different ways. And if you’re not there in each of those moments as they’re like, going through and building that trust, wherever they’re going to get those information points, you know, just going out and saying, like, do this now. Deadline approaching, you know, like you’re gonna they’re not going to be ready to do the end the end goal. So,

Christian Klepp  05:43

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah,

Andrea Ness  05:45

Another thing that we notice is more like the fragmented, like the messaging so, and it’s just, you know, we that’s why we really, really hone in on integrated marketing. Because it really is, if we’re ready, if we have our key messages in place. It’s not just what the ads should say. It’s in every form of their communications. And sometimes people don’t think that way, because businesses are in their different teams. They have their sales team, they’re their PR team and communications team, you know, they have, you know, their web team. They have, you know, like all these other teams. But when, when we are ready to say these are going to be our key messages we’re going to hit out there. We have to make sure that all of these teams are aligned and the messaging resonates. So no matter where your audience goes to or where they go out to seek information, you don’t want to lose them by like they seen an ad with this message, but then they don’t. They go to your website and they don’t see it anymore, or even their organic channels, if you’re not talking about even those, those points in there, you know. And we also like, even, like, make sure clients know of like, even, like, public relations teams and whatnot. Like, you know, is it in your boiler plates anymore? Is there ways that we could integrate it in some of your content marketing, or your or the articles that you’re putting out there, or the thought leadership, you know, articles that your, leadership team is putting out there. So really, is taking those, like the key components, and what you have those down, and what you want your elevator pitch to be known for, and making sure every channel, especially sales teams too, like they’re the ones that are on the ground, they’re the ones that are, you know, talking to them when they’re in consideration, almost out of consideration. Are they saying the same points that we are trying to say up front and as your leadership, you know, team also, if they’re doing speaking points, having those one on one conversations, you know, are they also bringing down those team messages so everyone can get, you know, the same type of elevator pitch when they’re when they see it.

Christian Klepp  07:36

Absolutely, absolutely, it’s, it’s amazing to me that, like, You know, you see this across the board, how the messaging tends to be inconsistent across the different channels. I don’t know where that that somehow got lost in translation, that like, okay, for each channel the message should be, should be different and, and that’s, you know, like, to your point, like, nothing could be further from the truth.

Andrea Ness  08:00

Yeah, and it’s yeah, and sometimes it’s, you know, sometimes there are going to be other messages, like, you know, take organic social, for instance. It’s doing multiple jobs. It’s not just selling. It is, you know, bringing the culture component. It’s probably also talking to it, you know, possible future employees. And so it is doing, like, other themes in general. But if there is a sales point when, you know, and what we’ve learned is that when people hit consideration stages, they’re not ready to fill out a form right yet. They’re not ready to even call you on the phone, but they will connect with your socials to see, you know, like, so like, just as like, more reminders, but so if you’re not also seeing some of those marketing messages in there as well, you know, like, you’re gonna, you know, you’re going to lose them, and they’re just going to have that connection. And we always like to say is, like, when we put ads out in market again, very rarely are they going to resonate. The first thing they’re going to take that college, and especially for B2B, it’s different for retail, you know, the big sales, but for B2B, like, the expectation is they see your ad resonate. It might be something, oh, when I’m out of work, maybe I’ll go, you know, look into this. But you know, is that message really, really saying what you wanted to say and when they want to organically come back and find you later, wherever they go to to find is that going to be connecting, or is it going to be a completely different scenario where they can’t even get to where you want them to go to? You know, the follow the journey?

Christian Klepp  09:19

No, absolutely. Thanks for sharing that. I did have two follow up questions for you based on everything that you’ve said in the past couple of minutes. So the first one is like, I mean, I’ve been, I’ve been marketing for a little bit, like, especially B2B marketing, and I’m sure it’s the same with you, but marketing has become so much more complex than when we started out, like, just from your perspective and your experience, especially in the paid media landscape, like, how has technology impacted the way that teams go about dealing with paid media? Maybe talk about the advantages and also how it’s been a little bit detrimental to them as well?

Andrea Ness  10:02

Yeah, I would, I would say that just the many different options and how audiences are so different, and how like, from where we I learned how to, you know, how to connect with people is completely different from how, like, the New Age is connecting where, you know, they are really like, you know, like a lot of people like, they less phone calls, you know, less email addresses they have. They really, really learn from technology. They really learn from video like, video learning is a really key adapter to that, you know, also reaching out, even through like, you know, like DM’s (Direct Messages) of social media, those quick interactions where they’re not ready. You know, when, like, we’re like, on the B2B side. We’re always used to, like, lead forms, going to the website, doing that. And sometimes they just don’t want to leave the environments that they’re in. And if you’re not allowing them to learn from the environments that they’re in, too, as well, you know, then, then we’re going to be losing out. And a lot of times, too, when they’re ready for they want to know a quick answer, you know, with, like, with chatGPT, with everything else, they can get those answers fast. So if you’re not there and present and responding in an efficient manner, like, then you’re going to lose them, because there’s going to be another competitor that does have, like, the, you know, the the chat on their website, that they think they can get a quick answer, where they don’t feel comfortable calling on a phone and knowing when you call on the phone, you’re going to have to be a waiting period to talk to someone, and you might not get a human so it’s just everyone has, like, their own ways of connecting, you know, and to get information and to make sure that you are available in those information cycles, rather than just, like, let’s just take them to a form, and then maybe a day later, we’ll have someone follow up with them. So you just want to make sure that you’re present in the moments where they’re ready to make those choices.

Christian Klepp  11:44

You know, it’s funny that you mentioned that, because I had this experience yesterday when I was trying to call a client, and then I heard this voice after it rang like, three times, and I thought, okay, it’s going to be the client. And so I started talking, and then I realized, like, oh, this person is not available at the moment, if you leave your name and tell me what this call is about, I can see if this person’s available. I’m like, Oh, okay. AI (Artificial Intelligence), right. So I’d have to, I had to tell, I have to tell the AI, okay, this is my name and this is the reason why I’m calling. And it says, It pauses for two seconds and says, Thank you. I will try to connect you. And then there’s this little like medley playing in the background, and then says, person is not available, please leave a message. I’m like, wow, that was a lot of like, hoops to jump through. Right? Like,

Andrea Ness  12:30

yes, exactly.

Christian Klepp  12:31

But to your point, right, to your point, it’s a lot of, it’s a lot of like, waiting and, you know,

Andrea Ness  12:37

and I would say too, like, even, like, you know, from moving to, you know, making a phone call, knowing that you’re going to get, you know, a customer service level, but then to get a real answer, you might have to ask for a manager and go up to that level. Back in the day, you know, I would, I would tell people, you know, because I have really, you know, experience on the social media side. I’m like, you know, what? If you go straight to the social media inboxes, you’re going to get a quicker, faster response from a different limb, because that’s managed by PR teams and communications channels, and they have to be really, really but what they can respond to like is, you know, going to be at that already a tier two or tier three level. So it really is. Everything’s changing all the time, and you just want to make sure that you know when they’re ready when they ask your question. If you’re not there to answer that question, then someone else is going to answer that question for you.

Christian Klepp  13:24

Yeah, yeah, that’s absolutely right. All right. So that was my first question. The second question, which you kind of already brought up, but because teams are dealing with this all the time, and I love that you brought it up, how do you deal with pushback? And when I mean, when I say push back, it’s like, how do you deal with senior management and B2B organizations, of which there are many that are going to look at your media campaign and your outreach campaign and say, Okay, well, Andrea, that’s all nice and good. But like, you know, how do we get to revenue quickly? What’s the ROI on this? Like, we need leads. We don’t need them. We, you know, we don’t need engagement. We don’t need engagement and sharing. We need leads. Like, you know, how do you deal with that kind of pushback, and how do you get them to understand that this takes time.

Andrea Ness  14:12

It is, yeah, it really is an educational moment, because our clients are experts at their fields in what they do, you know? And so we really do also want to come in as coming in as a partner, that we also want to showcase our marketing expertise. And like you, do this really well. And while you do you know your job really well. Let us go in and also give you some information agitation of why, why if we go straight to, straight to the call to action, why that you know, is going to be less resonant than if we come in and say, You know what, let’s talk we know they’re going to they start here in the research phase building awareness, and now it’s time to build trust and consideration and answering you know exactly when they’re when they’re in that consideration phase. What are the key points that you need to tell them there, and why you need to message them differently, and why sometimes it’s. Not good to go straight to the call to action, because when they see that, then they’re going to be more likely to be like, you’re bombarding me. I’m not ready for the sales thing. I just want information. So it’s just like, how do we stay safe, top of mind, and especially in that consideration cycle, which is the longest cycle, it really is building trust. So like, how do you also offer information that’s what’s in there for them, not what’s in it for our clients to be like, You know what? You really care about me, and you’re not you’re not like, begging for me to contact you right away, but you’re giving me something, information that’s very like, that I need in the moment, that’s helping with with my job, that’s helping me with doing this stuff. So then when I do need you, you know, maybe like in that cycle period, I’m going to think of you first, because you were there, providing that information and showcasing the expertise, and I saw you at that event, you know. And just like you’re you’re building up those points to build that trust. So when they are ready to receive you in their moment, you know that you’re be one of the ones that they call so it really is trying to really think of that journey, and every journey is different per client, but to really look at, like, here’s the communications channels that are happening, both paid, but also, you know, like, you know, like, on the ground and, you know, organic and everything else. And like, how do we also make sure that we’re moving them along in a way, that they’re ready for it.

Christian Klepp  16:24

Yeah, yeah, you’ve laid that out beautifully. That tells me that you’ve dealt with this situation many times before.

Andrea Ness  16:29

We do it all the time. And you know, we really want to be stewards of our clients money, so we know, like, you’re going to give us the same amount of money to go into market here, or maybe getting the house in order, getting our messaging like, maybe, how do we resonate? How do we give them information? That’s what’s in it for them. And then we go into market and spend the same amount of money that we would be right away, and the results are just even better, because we’re talking to people that are not just early, but they’re already thinking about you because we made them think about you.

Christian Klepp  17:01

Yeah, absolutely. I’ll move us along to the next question about key pitfalls that marketing teams should avoid, and what should they be doing instead?

Andrea Ness  17:09

Okay, so there’s going to be, like, a few of them. One of the ones is, sort of, you know, what we what we just mentioned this too, is, like, the going into doing a marketing campaign without that strategic position that you have before you get started. So, you know, wanting to make sure that you have clear market positioning, you have really good messaging frame rooms, frameworks that you know that this is how you should be talking about them here. And sometimes it’s going to be messaging, you know, differently based on different audiences for a whole unique, you know, types of instances, but you’re not just focusing on, Oh, these are these ads. Are really pretty let’s get them out there. But do they resonate? Do they connect? You know, like, are they going to make people stop and look and listen, you know, rather than just pass by because they’re seeing 1000s of other ads as well. So, like, really thinking about that. Another thing is, what we know we talked about before is this, like the over reliance on paid media. You know, we’re treating ads as the primary growth lever, and then that is our answer, no matter what we have, you know, like, what, what the house looks like, what the you know, what the levers that we have are in place, but just so instead what we want to use it as just to amplify the really strong messaging that we all believe in, and we know it’s going to work, and we know we see it, you know, tested and working, and then to be able to get that out there, and then also just, you know, the pitfall number three would be, like, more like measuring only on short term metrics. So, like, we’re only focused on the leads, you know, like, that is our answer, and that’s only what we care about. We’re reporting on where there is so much that gets them through each of those ones. Like, how much engagement, how much audience growth did we have throughout? Where are they at in the funnel, where they were, you know, during the baseline, you know, match it served we saw them, you know. So just really looking at, like, the different ways that we know that they’re in the funnel, they’re listening, they’re understanding,

Christian Klepp  19:03

Yeah, no, absolutely, yeah. There we go, man. Like, you know, we’re only focusing on leads. That’s all, that’s all I want to hear. That’s all I want to hear.

Andrea Ness  19:11

We know, we know our clients have a bottom line and, you know, and it’s like their jobs on the line, and this is what their focus is on, doing it too. But if we don’t have that upfront cycle, moving that journey, knowing, especially if we know their cycle of, like, 18 months, you know, to get them to the leads, we should be talking, you know, to them a year, you know, to get them through. And then just really focus on,

Christian Klepp  19:35

Well, it’s a process too, isn’t it? And I think you brought this up earlier in the conversation, that especially in B2B, we’re looking at a buying committee of anywhere between six to 10 people. This isn’t somebody that makes a decision on impulse, like, you go into a supermarket and oh gosh, like, look at that deal. Let me pull up my credit card. And people on B2B just don’t make decisions that way, right? In fact, I’m. In fact, I think to your earlier point, they do a lot of their own research. They probably talk to industry peers. They look online to see like, what other people are saying, what, or even like what they’re going to find if they do a Google search, or, these days, an AI search, right? And they’re not going to like immediately say, Well, let me get a hold of one of your sales people, and let’s jump on a call. I mean, that’s probably the last thing that they want to do.

Andrea Ness  20:25

Yeah, yeah, if they have all those other areas where they can research and how other people are communicating them as well. So yeah, sales people right now are, like, one of the last ones. But we and we know there’s that, like, if they get to a meeting, they’re more likely to diverse if they get to, you know, once they get there, but you got to make sure that they get there. And that’s like, the hardest part is to get them in the room and to talk to them, because we know the sales people are great at what they do a lot of times, you know, like even talking to clients too. Like they forget to even, like to have conversations with their sales people, because they just want over here. But I’m like, sometimes your sales people are like, they know the frequently asked questions. They know what people are dealing with to get to sell. And then if you could take what you’re learning from there, you know, and the questions that they’re asking in other channels that, like, could be part of your messaging and how you answer that you know. And now maybe you need a frequently asked question thing on your website when you know they can get those answers quickly rather than making a phone call because they’re not ready to so

Christian Klepp  21:23

That’s it. That’s an FAQ (Frequently Asked Question) page or an FAQ section, right? Or perhaps even multiple FAQ sections, right, depending on how how diverse the portfolio is.

Andrea Ness  21:34

Correct.

Christian Klepp  21:35

Okay, you talked about this earlier, but I, you know, I’ve, we’ve got to go back to it and unpack it a little bit, because, again, the hint is in the name, like, the foundation is key, right? The foundation is very important. So talk to us about how strong foundational messaging improves performance across every channel. And I think a lot of people underestimate how important that is,

Andrea Ness  21:59

yeah, and it really is because, you know, like, you’re probably not a siloed company that does the only thing that and no other people do it. So it really is, not only are your competitors out there and then you’re also, like, having to fight the 1000s of other brands that are talking to the same audiences for different reasons, but really, what, what does make you need you know, like, what you know like, and it’s, it’s a good exercise to do it. But like, based on you know, you and your competitor, what? Why do they sway towards you? Like, how? And then, what are those key messages that you really, really want to put out there that, like, so, so they, so they already know that. But like, really learning, like, what are your needs? What are your key messages for the time? And that can change. So like, based on specific focus parts that you really like your industry really wants a focus part focus on. But like, even if you’re looking at and saying, You know what, this department can really use more revenue right now. So let’s then take this quarter and focus on, like, these, these departments, and that’s going to be our key messages. But now we have to make sure everyone’s talking these teams mess the same ones and not ones that they were talking about six months ago. So it really is like, what are we trying to tell them? What makes us unique, how and now that we have our needs, how are you going to creatively say that in a way that’s going to resonate with people, that will make them stop and look and, you know, spend more time on your site, spend more time on the ad and just, you know, so just in those ways, like, what makes you different? But then also, how are you showing those differences in a creative way that’s trying to make it stand out?

Christian Klepp  23:30

And I think that, in itself, is quite the exercise, isn’t it? I mean, like, you know, you could probably speak from experience, because a lot of companies like have this misconception about what their uniqueness actually is. And you know, where I’m going with this, right? Like, they start, they start either defaulting to features or our uniqueness is our people, you know, they start, like, throwing in, like, generic answers like that, right? When, when they actually, like, I won’t say, fail to see it from this perspective. But they, what they sometimes don’t understand is that the uniqueness lies in your ability, in your ability to solve the customer’s problems and challenges. Like, how you know, how are you uniquely equipped to deal with that.

Christian Klepp  23:57

And with your audiences. Like, how different maybe your audiences are, and you have a few different groups of audiences, and then when you’re looking at them, you know that, like, maybe key message one and two really hits home here, but not really over here in this audience. So now we need to, like, shift our focus. And for these audiences, we need to really hone in on different ways. We just say this, you know, these key messages,

Christian Klepp  23:58

Yep, for sure. Andrea, I hate to do this, but like this is, this is totally gonna sound like marketing one on one. But let’s, let’s clear the air on this, because I know there’s a lot of there’s probably some marketers out there that that are ashamed to admit they don’t know the difference. But just run it past us one more time. The difference between owned, earned and paid media, please.

Andrea Ness  23:58

So I like to refer, yeah. So, you know, I back in my last agency, I was over like I was the activation that director, which was overseen, owned and paid, and previous experience and PR too. So what’s nice about me as media director for my agency is I do see that fuller picture, and we are the first. And even though everyone’s just like, why aren’t you taking. Why aren’t you taking clients money, when I’m like, No, if we own media, is like the foundational house. So think of all your communication channels that that you build, so like your website, organic channels would be, you know, also, you know, helping with owned all your communication materials, your sales materials, everything like that, where you’re just like those, those communication materials that are going out in the world and that they’re seeing, that the client owns and and can update and then earn media is like if you work with a communications team internally, or if you work with a PR team, but really trying to get those messages out there. Earn is sort of not free, but, you know, you ask that you pay PR people, but it’s a when you’re you’re really trying to do like press events, or your put press releases out there in hopes that the TV channels and the newspapers and whatnot will pick up your story. You don’t have a full you can’t tell them exactly what to put in the query, but they might pull quotes from your spokesperson. And so you’re going to try to get out in the news media and doing it that way. So it’s sort of like if you have big events, if you have, like, big mergers and acquisitions, you know you want to work with, like getting those out and getting the paid media. Because what people look, the consumers look and you know, and you know, like B2B audiences too. They read the news. They trust the news. And if it comes from there is, you know, like you feel like you’re, you know, like they’re like, Okay, not only do I have trust in this company, but do. I’m breeding to from news outlets that I trust are also validating. And then paid is where, where we come in, where it’s just like, how do we like, make sure we are targeting your audiences and putting it to the right people in paid spaces. Some of our paid media doesn’t look like paid media, so we have a big thing with content marketing, you know, where we are writing articles, we are writing, you know, interviews, and you are showing up on TV and in in those third party areas where what I like about content marketing is, we get to write the full story so you have and it looks and feels like it’s part of the the publishing company. It is approved by, you know, like USA Today, and, you know, those type of networks, but, but you did that full space where you get to write, write it. So, yeah.

Christian Klepp  24:34

Yep, yep, that’s right, that’s right. Okay, so you know, in our previous conversation, you mentioned something along the lines of aligning paid campaigns with earned, owned and social media assets, reduces the friction customer journey and increases recall when audiences are ready to convert. I know that was a lot of marketing speak, but please, please elaborate on that.

Andrea Ness  25:01

And it just goes, it goes back to the point is, you know, even though we’re ready to go to a paid campaign, like, what we keep on, like, wanting to make sure that people usually don’t convert on the first ad exposure that they see. So you really, really do want to make sure that there are so many other ways that they can get to that information. Advertising helps. But, you know, like, like, if you look at you know what your journey is, and really, it’s a great exercise, if you don’t have a customer journey, like, laid out on paper and really, and looking at that, not just for paid media channels, but also, you know, like, here’s what we’re doing, foundational, like, that owned media, you know, and then here’s what you know earned media is doing that, they’re really pushing out. And here’s their focus. But like, you know, people can see an ad, and again, they might not be ready to click on an ad for a variety of reasons, but they know, you know what, I’m gonna go Google them later and get back to it when I have time, or in that moment. Because, again, especially if they’re on platform, seeing an ad, you know, they a lot of they don’t want to just hop off to every click available, you know, to them. They want to stay on the platform. So, you know. So they see an ad, they might Google, you know, the company later, you know. And then organically, they’re going to probably get to your homepage. But if the homepage doesn’t have anything to do with what you just told them, you know, then we’re going to lose them, you know. So they’re going to visit website. Then they might go on LinkedIn, and they might read a thought leadership article from, you know, one of the executives. But if they’re also not talking about that, you know, we’re losing them. But if we are, we know if that’s one of our key message points, and that’s a focus of what that thought leadership piece is, because we know we’re going to be including these key messages. Then it resonates, and then it brings them back over to the website. To be like, oh, you know what? I saw that ad, and now I see, you know, the President talking about this. And it does meet, sensing it from a person point of view, you know, so reading thought leadership, they’re checking LinkedIn even, you know, we always have people review their organic channels, like, even, like, is it something that we should be changing your cover photos on that resonates, you know? Is it something where you already have your organic strategy, but we’re having this marketing campaign over here? Can we make sure we integrate, you know, a couple posts a week, also to include, you know, some of the marketing messages to make sure that we’re hitting this audience as well, you know? And then you’re talking to peers. So if you have their sales people on the ground, if you have your executive leadership team visiting things, are they also, like, told, like, you know, here’s some key points that make sure that you’re you’re also including in your conversations, you know, just so like, at the end of the day that they’re like, Okay, you know, if someone says they elevator pitch for your for your company, like it, it’s more resonate if, if you know that they’re hearing it from different angles, it becomes, it becomes your, your pitch.

Christian Klepp  30:50

Fantastic. Thanks for clearing the air on that one. Like, because, because, again, you know, these are, these are some terms that I’ve seen people just throw around loosely. And I’m like, I always keep asking myself, like, do you guys actually even know what the difference is, right? And it’s important,

Andrea Ness  31:06

Yeah, and a lot of people don’t think to, because, again, they might be different departments of the client, but they might not think to bring people in the room. But if we’re going in a campaign, and it’s best to have, like, everything work together, to even know from from a marketing side of you, what the PR strategy is, because what? What, what we if we know you’re having a big PR event, why not let that, let that sort and then we will start marketing right after, like, building on that momentum and making sure we’re assisting and aligning with that.

Christian Klepp  31:33

Yeah, no, that’s it. That’s it. All right, buckle up, because this, this question, is going to be pretty meat. This one’s pretty meaty. All right, so let’s talk about you’ve brought it up already, but like you know something that B2B marketing teams should focus on, such as long lasting assets. And when I say long lasting assets, we’re talking about websites like you said earlier, executive visibility and thought leadership. So two questions here. So why do you think these often outperform short term paid campaigns? And how can marketers leverage these assets to maximize paid media ROI?

Andrea Ness  32:11

Yes, so paid media is, you know, we’re not always in market, you know. So, like, you know, we’re either on or we’re off. But what, what’s nice about those, those other assets are that they they can live on. So if you’re looking at SEO, for instance, if you have, you know, long form videos and testimonials available, available on your website, you know those type of things are going to be so much more like, not more important, but like, really important, where then like, what we like to do too, especially if you have, like, your content marketing strategy, or if we see videos that are really, really performing well organically, or, like, how, how can then we repurpose that for ads like, you know, like clips of the testimonial that that we see, but really is you want stuff to live longer, you know? And what one of the things we like to do with content marketing strategies, where we might pay and work with a Direct Publisher like USA today to have that article in, but what’s best is also to repurpose that article and make it live on your website as well, because it will keep on also driving traffic to your website. The SEO is, you know, great, you’re putting your key points in, but USA might, you know, eventually take that off your page where it doesn’t live there anymore, but you just want to make sure that these things live here, and it drives, you know, to those type of assets. So anything that you can think about search, you know, like anything with YouTube and video showing up, it will always show up on Google searches, you know, and everything like that that will be able to live on.

Christian Klepp  33:38

It sounds almost like you’re saying, like, try to get more juice out of the squeeze, right?

Andrea Ness  33:42

Yeah, yeah. We learned too, yep. So we go, if you have, like, like, let’s say clients have blog pages, you know, one of the first things that we like to look at too, is what blogs are resonating and hitting home. And like, you know, you’ll see, like, there’s some that are just high up there. And then what you want to do is be like, Why is this resonating? Does this focus on the key message we need to it to, what can we then? How can we repurpose that into different assets? So we would take content marketing articles or blogs that we see that are really like, good and we like, you know, what we got to do a video of this, we have to go in and do like, you know, like, take these points and put them in snippets and do an ad campaign based on those.

Christian Klepp  34:19

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely, oh boy. We’re, we’re, we’re approaching the love it or hate it territory. And you know what I’m talking about, right?

Andrea Ness  34:30

Yeah.

Christian Klepp  34:30

Metrics, metrics, metrics, metrics, and we can go down a really, really deep rabbit hole with this one, but let’s keep it like top level, right? But based on everything that we’ve been talking about right in this conversation. What are some of the key metrics that you would say B2B marketing teams, you guys should be paying attention to these.

Andrea Ness  34:48

Yes, anything where we can integrate within a CMS (Content Management System) and not just looked at the end goal, but what we’re doing is like, like, what are the metrics of their life, of awareness? You know? What are those? Metrics, and people might just think of impressions, you know, but there’s also many different ways too. It’s just like, if you do a survey, like a baseline survey, prior to going into market and getting the lay of the land, and seeing how people feel about your brand, seeing people of what they know about, like, what you need them to know about, and then you go into market. And then after, like, with an eight to 12 months later, you go and then you re test that same survey, and you see how you move the needle. So then it turns just from measuring impressions, you know, for an awareness, but like, you’re really like, not only do we, you know, we hit them, but they’re also listening and understanding. And here’s the data that proves that. So things like that time on site, knowing that, that they’re reading, that they’re really looking into it, they’re not just a click, you know, and you got the website click Content downloads if they’re really looking at those things that are like, what’s in it for them, not what’s in it for us. And then return visitors, are they coming back? You know? Like, because usually, like, if it’s they’re in consideration phases, they’re not going to make the choice right off the date, but if they return. And then other things that we’re looking for in that is like, like Brand Lift, ad lift is that, if we are making a difference where, like, doing like lift studies, where you put you, you serve the content, and then you see, like, if for people who didn’t see this content, like, are they resonating less or more? And so then you’re really knowing that they’re really the people that are seeing your content, are actually paying attention and listening. So therefore we’re moving so definitely different from just like CTR (Click-Through Rate) and leads, and that felt like, like in every stage, like, what makes them trust you more? What makes them consider you more? How are they like going deeper in those funnels?

Christian Klepp  36:48

And it’s very interesting that you didn’t say lead conversion, right? And it’s great how you laid that all out and explained it that look back to what you were saying at the beginning of this conversation, that it’s not just about the lead conversion, especially in such a complex ecosystem, you need to talk about building that trust, getting them a little bit closer to well, understanding what it is you do, and making them ultimately choose you over who else is out there in the market, right? So it’s a there’s, um, there’s so many, like nuances, but also complexities involved in that process. Yeah.

Andrea Ness  37:25

And we know that when we hit them with those, when we are ready to hit them with those, now it’s time to take a Nash. And we know if they did those other steps first, that conversion rate is much higher than if we try to just make them convert the first time around,

Christian Klepp  37:40

absolutely, absolutely, all right. Andrea, get up on your soapbox for this next one. What is a status quo in your area of expertise that you passionately disagree with and why?

Andrea Ness  37:56

I would say the biggest misconception I see is treating paid media as a primary growth engine, rather than the amplifier. I think it goes back to that. I think right when they say, Okay, we got a budget for paid media, let’s go or don’t, see results, you know, rather than looking at it as just like, we know exactly what like we need to say. We just want to we want an outreach to say it. And because once they hear this, and once they know this, and once they trust us, like it’s doing. So like, really looking at that, like paint media is not the solver and the creator of that, but it’s just amplifying that.

Christian Klepp  38:30

So, yeah, it’s a component. It’s important, but it’s a component. It’s one component in the overall, in the overall ecosystem, and it’s one piece of the puzzle. I mean, like, you know, throw in whatever metaphors you want, right? Absolutely.

Andrea Ness  38:46

Yeah, one of the things you just say, it’s just like paid media, it just, it doesn’t, it’s not going to fix a wheat strategy. It just exposes it faster. You know, it really is, you know, if you don’t have that ready to go, then we’re just promoting that. You don’t have it to everywhere else.

Christian Klepp  39:02

Yeah, and that’s putting it bluntly, right? Yeah, it’s, it’s almost like building a house, and you have a, you know, you have a weak foundation, and then you start, like, coming up with these, you know, putting on, on these fancy roof tiles. And then you have all this expensive, like looking like, like window frames and then just all collapses, right? Fantastic. Andrea, thank you so much for coming on. This is such a this was such a great conversation. And thanks for sharing your experience and expertise with the listeners. Quick introduction to yourself and how folks out there can get in touch with you.

Andrea Ness  39:40

Yes, Andrea Ness, I am the Media Director over at DDM Marketing and Communications, been doing agency life for a little over 25 years. What’s the best part that I feel like I’m strong in is because I pretty much like touched every every department of the agency. So you know, from the creative side. To the account side, you know, over to the, you know, public relations and whatnot. So I really do get that full funnel approach. So, you know, it is a little bit different than other like, maybe media directors out there. We’re just like, we will take your money, let us, like, go and show you some conversions. But it really is like, we want to make sure that we are stewards of of your dollars, and we want to make sure that what we put out there is going to be successful. So, you know, so really focusing on that overall integrated strategy, DDM offers all the components that, you know, one of the reasons why I strongly wanted to work with DDM for for quite a while, is because we are a big team. We have all the departments, and we are able to just, you know, be able to shoot the ideas out there. But when we’re in, when media is in the room too, we are. We would be the first one to be like, You know what? Let’s focus on building that house first, and then come to us in a little bit when you guys had it ready. And then we’ll, we’ll push media. So, yeah,

Christian Klepp  40:51

absolutely, absolutely, a true renaissance woman in every, every regard. But once again. Andrea, thank you so much for coming on the show. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon.

Andrea Ness  41:03

All right. Thank you.

Christian Klepp  41:04

Bye for now.