4. Resilience & Entrepreneurship | Peter Bomer & Bessie Lee

Slide Ep. 4: Interview with Peter Bomer & Bessie Lee

Resilience & Entrepreneurship

EP4-Peter Bomer-Bessie Lee

We’ve taken a slightly different journey on this episode and have ventured abroad to have an engaging conversation with Peter Bomer (Founder, The China Hack) and Bessie Lee (Founder & CEO, Withinlink). In this interview, China veterans Peter and Bessie reveal their motivations for starting their own successful businesses in such a challenging market, what trends they have seen coming out of the current crisis, and also provide some remarkable insights for how B2B marketers and entrepreneurs can thrive in times of uncertainty.

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • The challenges that Peter and Bessie faced early on in their journey as entrepreneurs and how they managed to overcome them. [6:03 / 7:10]
  • The interesting trends that Peter and Bessie has seen that have come out of the current crisis [15:36]
  • Advice they have for businesses that are currently going through the dilemma of how/whether they should change to adapt. [24:45 / 27:44]

Resources & links mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Christian Klepp, Peter Boomer, Bessie Lee

Christian Klepp  00:08

Hi, and welcome to the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast. I’m your host Christian Klepp, and one of the founders of EINBLICK Consulting. Our goal is to share inspirational stories, tips and insights from B2B marketers, digital entrepreneurs, and industry experts that will help you to think differently, succeed and scale your business.

Christian Klepp  00:28

Hi, everybody, and welcome to Episode 4 of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast. I’m your host Christian Klepp. And today I’m delighted to have Peter Bomer and Bessie Lee join me all the way from the UK. Peter and Bessie, welcome to the show.

Peter Bomer  00:42

Hi, Chris. It’s very nice to be here.

Bessie Lee  00:44

Yeah. Thank you for having us.

Christian Klepp  00:46

Fantastic. So let’s jump right in, and why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Bessie Lee  00:52

Okay, I’ll go first. Hi, my name is Bessie Lee. I’m in the marketing, media and advertising field. I was working for WPP for 27 years and my last job with WPP was their China CEO. Then I left WPP to found my own strategic investor incubator of marketing technology startup in China.

Peter Bomer  01:18

And I’m Peter Bomer. I’m in the UK at the moment, trapped here by the lockdown. I’ve also been based in China and technically still am. Hopefully one day I’ll get back there. But I went out there to run the Asia marketing for Johnny Walker whisky and stay in China as the marketing director for China in Hong Kong for the parent company Diageo. In 2005, I actually started out on my own as an entrepreneur, so I’ve had a series of different businesses in China since then.

Christian Klepp  01:58

Fantastic. So I mean, both of you have had extremely successful careers in international organizations. You’ve made that leap of faith into the world of entrepreneurship. So can you talk a little bit about what prompted that?

Peter Bomer  02:13

Yeah. We’ve will probably alternate with who goes first. I guess that’s the best way to do it. For me, I’d been talking about doing it for 10 years. And honestly, I started to feel slightly ashamed of myself that I hadn’t actually made the jump. Having spent a lot of time with entrepreneurs now, that’s quite a common thing. And I think going to China with the Diageo, opened my eyes to just how big the opportunities are there. And if I’m really honest to how you really need it to be slightly smaller and more fleet of foot to seize them. So those two things combined, made it feel like the right time to leave the Diageo, I’m sure they felt exactly the same way about me. Because I think it’s pretty clear my interest was heading in a different direction. And that’s how I got going.

Bessie Lee  03:10

Right. So in my case, like I said, previously that I was in WPP for 27 years. Working in China, you get to see technology in mobile and e-commerce and social, right now as marketing technology evolves very quickly. So when I was the WPP CEO, I tried to see if I can drive this, embrace of innovation within a big, sophisticated and complicated corporate life in WPP but I found it very difficult because there’s a lot of silos and the  mentality was not there. That model itself was an old model. So I thought instead of spending my time breaking through silos, my time will probably be better spent going outside and investing and incubating marketing startup that represent the future of the marketing industry. And so simple as that I just chose to leave. I think it’s probably easier to embrace innovation when you’re outside of a big organization and you have all the autonomy, you have all the freedom. And you can you can operate on the speed that you like to. So those are the reason why I started it.

Peter Bomer  04:38

Yeah, and I’d add something to that, just building on that. It’s a lot to do with risk appetite. Understandably, big organizations are cautious. They don’t particularly seek to be or want to be, but people in senior positions in those large companies have, at least two agendas they have to manage. The first is what’s in the best interest and provide the best opportunity for the business. But the other is what’s in the best interest of their further career development. And those two forces aren’t always harmonious with each other. So the ability to actually embrace risk and do things boldly that perhaps the corporate might take rather a long time to decide to do. And that’s very attractive if you have the right kind of mindset yourself.

Christian Klepp  05:30

Indeed, and those are all like, amazing stories, and certainly different backgrounds and motivations, but something that you said that really resonated with me was trying to break down the silos or working through the silo ’cause sometimes that feels like you’re swimming against the current in a relatively large river. So what were some of the challenges that you faced early on in your journey as entrepreneurs and how did you manage to overcome them?

Bessie Lee  06:03

When I first started my company, I guess the scale of the company and the resource of the company is very different to a big organization like the WPP. WPP in China has 14,000 employees; they have 1.2 billion US dollar revenue at that time. We have in 20 cities are very active operations. And we have below the line, satellite offices, in close to 400 cities in China. So, the breadth and depth of the resource, that’s something that as a small startup or as a small firm that you don’t have. So how do you adjust from having a big troop at your command to having a very small but autonomous ship, but you have to do everything on your own, you have to be hands on on pretty much everything. That is a very big sort of getting used to. If you leave a big corporate and start your own business.

Peter Bomer  07:10

That was much less of an issue for me. I really relish the freedom and the fact that it was down to me to put the right team together and to make things happen. There was certainly some trepidation to begin with, because you wonder how you’re going to fare when it’s down to you to raise funding, when it’s down to you to handle every aspect of the business, much more scope than you’ve perhaps had in the corporate world. But actually discovered quite quickly that those things are not particularly any harder than anything you were doing in your corporate job. Just broader and actually more interesting for that. So that was less of an issue, the challenges for me when were actually more about where I was choosing to build quite difficult businesses. So, China for any Westerner is an incredibly, you could almost say hostile, operating environment. And there’s obviously nothing new in that statement. But the things you find yourself struggling with aren’t the things you expect. Give you one example, one of the biggest issues for me is simply the way that a super bright, super talented Chinese team will approach a problem. It’s fundamentally different to anything I’d experienced in my corporate career, or in the West, and it took a very great deal of understanding what the differences were and learning how to handle them, to really achieve very high levels of performance. It’s something I think I would say that you never entirely resolve when you’re operating as a foreigner in China. But you obviously get much better at it and you move in the right direction, if you’re paying attention.

Christian Klepp  09:04

That’s exactly it. So Peter and Bessie, what would you say drives you on every single day to keep doing what you’re doing, continuing the good fight, as they say, or what’s the light at the end of the tunnel for you?

Peter Bomer  09:20

For me there, there are three things. The first one is the desire to try and do things that people feel are difficult or even impossible to do. So, my very first China business was a broadcasting business, a very successful one, ultimately. But in theory, at least as a Westerner, you are not allowed to own a broadcasting business in China. It turns out that it’s entirely possible to do so – you just have to understand the correct way to do that in the environment. And I relished the opportunity to figure out how you would make that work. So that’s the first driver for me.

Peter Bomer  10:03

The second driver is the purely financial one. I have hundreds of projects that I’m keen to get involved in. And I want the financial freedom to be able to do that, as and when I choose, and I’m happy to say that we’re well on the way to achieving that.

Peter Bomer  10:28

And the third one is really, everyone is very much on the same page now, thanks largely to coronavirus about that. But actually, I think it’s a trend that’s been emerging for a long time. And one of the aspects of that, that I find fascinating is the way that much smaller groups, much smaller teams, much smaller companies are empowered to compete effectively with the big players. It’s not something that has been at all easy to do in the past. But there’s really a growing sense now in a number of sectors that small is beautiful. But you can build a really world class team of, let’s say, 15 or 20 people, and do quite spectacular things. And thanks to the internet and modern technology, you can actually make a very successful business out of that, in many cases out playing the big established powerful players in a given industry.

Bessie Lee  11:33

So for me, early on, I said that when you when you left a big corporate and start your own business, the scale and the resources are something that you’re having to get used to. But it didn’t take long for you to start then enjoying the autonomy and the freedom that you get to enjoy and the speed of your decision making in a much smaller firm, especially a smaller firm that you’re running and operating yourself. So that I really, really enjoy.

Bessie Lee  12:04

And then the second for me is, because we’re in the space of strategic investment and incubation of marketing technology startup in China, we started to see our portfolio companies making differences in the industry, that the old model, the traditional agency model or marketing model, took forever trying to crack but couldn’t. So that was very interesting to see and that the difference making was very gratifying.

Bessie Lee  12:43

And the third is, at the moment, we have 16 companies on our portfolio, and one of our portfolio company is a mobile big data company. They went public listing in Shenzhen stock market in China. So when they listed in March last year, that your question to the light at the end of the tunnel, that was the first half of the end of the tunnel that we saw. And then we were just so thrilled. And now our second company is at the moment in the process of filing IPO in China as well. There’ll be filing IPO in the second half of this year. So you’re making changes in the industry and you’re seeing progress that your portfolio companies are making, not all only because of us, but we did contribute to their success. And you know that you’re driving and you’re helping the industry to go and to make progress in the right direction. That just very different to in the big corporate job where you just go up, wake up every day, go to the office and you sort of repeat similar process every day.

Christian Klepp  13:56

Really insightful and inspiring. Company going IPO. This next question is like, short of stating the obvious, the world’s been turned upside down within a relatively short period of time. Now more than ever a lot of B2B businesses and startups and even large organizations, they’ve had to think on their feet. And that’s caused a lot of changes across multiple industries. Now, let me just throw some findings at you. From a survey that was launched by McKinsey not too long ago, before I proceed to my next question. So McKinsey launched this survey of B2B businesses across 11 countries in seven sectors and 14 categories. The report is quite comprehensive, but three of the things that they found in terms of patterns were the following. So to nobody’s surprise, the first one, digital interactions are twice as important as they were a year ago. The second one is there’s a stronger preference, even among B2B businesses and customers for self service. And when we say self service, that means using platforms such as apps. And the third one is more than 90% of B2B companies, at least the ones that were surveyed, they’ve transitioned to a virtual sales model during COVID. So, these are some of the findings. But from your point of view, what are some of the interesting trends that you’ve seen that have come out of the current crisis?

Peter Bomer  15:36

Well, I’ll answer that by making a comment about those findings, because I think they’re incredibly interesting. And I think I would interpret that ever so slightly differently. I think it was always the case or has been for some years that those three things you mentioned, would have been dramatic improvements – for many, many businesses, not just B2B not startups. But that there is a general tendency and it tends to increase with the size of the company, to feel that the way you’re doing things is highly effective and doesn’t really necessitate very much change. And that tends to fall away when you’re in a situation, such as the global pandemic, so people are forced to confront the need to find more effective and more efficient ways to do things. The reality is, I strongly believe that those companies who recognize the importance of doing that, some years ago before something like COVID strikes, were actually able to achieve enormous benefit, even in that environment. And so I think what I’m saying is, that it’s always about a thinking on your feet, trying to find a better way to do things, trying to change and develop and push forward all the time. But it’s often the case that it takes a crisis to force people into thinking that way. And as I say, I think that’s more true, the larger the company. I guess what you’re looking at, again, is a risk appetite thing. Most people are averse to change, and very understandably, and that’s because they perceive the risk of changing as being higher than the risk of standing still. My view is that’s rarely the case  in any situation. But when you’re facing a global pandemic, people are much more likely to feel that standing still is the more risky option and go for change. So it’s incredibly healthy, but actually, it’s something I believe that good businesses do all the time. And again, in keeping with a lot of the things we’ve talked about already, both Bessie and myself, the smaller the ripeness, the easier it is to pull superbly talented teams together that are actually willing and able to do that on a daily basis.

Bessie Lee  18:07

Chris, thank you for sharing with us the the McKinsey’s report. But if you look at those findings, those tend to be part of the digitalization of everything that people have said in the last 10 years. I think what this pandemic has done is to give people the sense of urgency. I think started 10 years ago, countless big corporations started talking about digitalization of innovation. They even put in place Chief Digital Officer, Chief Innovation Officer, Chief Knowledge Officer, Chief, whatever officer this and that, but unfortunately, what we saw before the pandemic hit was – digitalization was a great advertising slogan, but the actual implementation can always wait because you always have other more urgent stuff to attend to.

Christian Klepp  19:04

Procrastination.

Bessie Lee  19:05

Exactly.

Peter Bomer  19:07

Dare I say complacency?

Bessie Lee  19:11

What this pandemic has done was to…, so what’s the excuse now? You have no excuse because like Peter said, you are forced at a corner. You have to change, you have to embrace the change. So what I’ve observed in both in China and the UK was, for those organizations that have embraced digitalization and innovation much early on, they have a much quicker or easier time adjusting to the new normal brought by this pandemic. Those companies that chose to put the digitalization and innovation on the side agenda and attend to other things, they find themselves in a very, very bad situation. Not only they are not able to turn around quick enough, but they found that their whole business model was overturned or disrupted by this pandemic, but they will help hopeless and helpless because they’re all working from home. So if you want to come up with a new business model, they probably will be like… Well, how do I do that now? I don’t know. I can’t even go to a meeting room. Right? Do you have a whiteboard? And do you have a PPT that people can present?

Christian Klepp  20:28

Or how do I soundproof my room?

Bessie Lee  20:31

Exactly. I mean, I came across the story, just just just amazing that this company never allowed employees to use a laptop. When pandemic hit, everybody had to work from home they had to order, I don’t know 250 laptops for their employees. So it’s things like that. I’ve seen that i China and I’ve seen that in the UK as well. So I personally very glad that this pandemic happen. I know a lot of people hate me for saying that. But looking at how organizations evolve, and I think this pandemic couldn’t happen in the right, the best timing. 2020 is such a great year for it to happen. And just embrace the new normal and reboot yourself, put your organization to zero and then start thinking. Start  throwing away the old model and then thinking what can I have / What would I have done differently? Being an organization of the future?

Peter Bomer  21:36

Yeah, I mean, it’s an issue of empowerment, isn’t it? And this is something from entrepreneurs actually at all times. But it’s that recognition that it falls to you to do something. And then the growing delight, actually that a great many people take in discovering they can do that. And that to me is incredibly exciting. I think it’s a global trend, I think it’s happening in a lot of industries. I think the craft gin industry is a fantastic example. Relatively small businesses making vastly superior products to the big players can’t of course achieve the kind of margins, that big players do, but are so much better able to make the right product for the right people at the right price quickly and adapt that it more than compensates, they’re still making good margins, not the same as a major player but they make good margins. And they’re able to reach people who are interested in what they do all around the world. And they do. That’s so tremendously exciting to me. That is something that I believe should be taught in schools, the ability to take that kind of control of your life. And again, I know Bessie isn’t grateful that the pandemic happened. It’s been appalling in so many ways. But I do agree with her, as always some real positives that have come out of it. And I think widening the number of people who are beginning to experience that sense of empowerment and do remarkable things. That’s a part of it.

Christian Klepp  23:21

Yeah, that’s absolutely right.

Christian Klepp  23:23

Hey, it’s Christian Klepp here. We’ll get back to the episode in a second. But first, is your brand struggling to cut through the noise? Are you trying to find more effective ways to reach your target audience and boost sales? Are you trying to pivot your business? If so, book a call with EINBLICK Consulting, our experienced consultants will work with you to help your B2B business to succeed and scale. Go to www.einblick.co for more information.

Christian Klepp  23:52

So both of you have been incredibly involved in, first of all running your own businesses and you’ve also been mentoring other people as they have been starting their own businesses and companies in such areas like digital and tech, and some of these happen to be in the B2B category as well. So, that being said, the current crisis has clearly forced many businesses, as you’ve rightly alluded to, to be agile in order to survive. But there’s always going to be those that are reluctant or resistant to change, simply because of the risk involved. And it might be a budget issue. But most importantly, it’s also because there’s some certain degree of anxiety of not knowing what will happen, 6 to 12 months from now. What advice would you have for these businesses that are currently going through that dilemma?

Peter Bomer  24:45

Well, don’t do it. Sound flippant? But I think, I suspect Actually, it’s rarer than your question would suggests I just don’t think this businesses or even individuals can afford to do that. And I think generally speaking, the business community all around the world have fairly well aware of it. You cannot afford to do that. In terms of what you do differently, I’d highlight two things really.

Peter Bomer  25:19

The first is just generally great practice for any fast growing startup business, which is to be incredibly clear about the end state that you’re trying to achieve the outcome, the place you’re trying to get to, if you like, and have a pretty clear idea in your mind how you’re going to go about that, but stay enormously responsive to events and adapt as you go along. So don’t lose sight of the end state. And do be very clear on what you think it takes in broad brush terms to get there, but keep listening, keep looking, keep spotting those places where you need to adapt to make sure you’re doing it. So that would be the first thing.

Peter Bomer  25:19

The second thing is, and this is difficult for humans everywhere, be absolutely ruthless in your appraisal of yourself and your business. One of the problems is that, people have cherished ideas, companies have cherished ideas, leadership teams, and wider teams about what’s so special about what they do. And my experience, and actually, you could do a whole separate podcast on this if you were interested. But my experience is that those cherished beliefs are quite often wrong. And it doesn’t come to light because in general, things are good in the economy and the market environment and the company is doing just fine. So those sort of cherished beliefs are allowed to maintain their hold and color, the way people do things. The thing you cannot afford to do in crisis times, and actually, if I’m honest, I think if you really want to succeed in any time is to allow those cherished beliefs to take hold. You have to look with a very hard cold eye at what you’re doing, and whether it’s the right thing to be doing. And whether you’re doing it right. Now, that is easy to say and incredibly hard to practice. But I guess nobody said the world of business is easy.

Christian Klepp  27:41

No, absolutely not.

Bessie Lee  27:44

I look at my 16 portfolio companies and also my own company. In the world, every day is uncertain. So every day is uncertain for startup. I mean, Chris, you actually are running a startup yourself. So, the next 6 to 12 months, next 6 weeks to 12 weeks aren’t certain to you, but, I look at my portfolio company, what they’ve been doing and my own company have been doing was – you keep your long term vision in sight. But you have a very short term plans. And therefore you’re able to adopt and you’re able to turn around quick enough. I mean, now is pandemic, given what’s happening in the US, business are interrupted as well business are affected as well. Now, there could be a war between the two countries who knows. So you got to have short term plans. And I look at my portfolios, portfolio companies, they’re evolving every day. It’s not just they’re all technology companies. So I’m not talking about just technologies itself are evolving but also talking about their business model are evolving, clienteles are evolving, their service offering to their clients are evolving at all thanks to this uncertainty. It’s the uncertainty that excited these startup, it’s uncertainty that excited us. Because we certainly do not want to repeat what we do every single day, if that’s what we enjoy, I would have never left the big corporate. So I think uncertainty is not all bad. But you just need to know how to embrace it. And then prepare yourself on this short term planning, quick turnaround time, speed, and flexibility.

Peter Bomer  29:43

Yeah, I couldn’t agree with that more. I know, I’ll add a word which is vigilance. I think in many ways, Bessie and I are quite similar, but just being absolutely aware of all times of what’s really going on. And as we both said, keeping that long term, sort of end state firm in mind, but thinking what is it I have to do this morning to adapt my approach to make sure I get there one day. And it’s partly about embracing uncertainty, in fact, to a very large extent. This is one of the issues in life. Some people are much more comfortable with that than others. Speaking for myself. I couldn’t live without uncertainty. The idea of that I might somehow actually know what’s lying ahead in the next 18 months is pretty terrifying to me. I wouldn’t like that at all. I think Bessie is similar. And I would say one thing actually, which is China in particular, a market all three of us know extremely well, is a place where that ability to handle uncertainty and deal productively with It is especially well advanced. So I think it’s a real strength of Chinese businesses, particularly Chinese startups. Remember, even the really big Chinese players were startups not so long ago, and in these cases, and still have quite an entrepreneurial approach in many ways. Yes, there is a real excellence in China at understanding that you might have to pivot is the cliche phrase three times one day, and that’s absolutely fine. I don’t know why that should be. I suppose the truth is, we’re a little more conditioned in the west to a general feeling that everything is okay, we’re comfortably off and we’re going to be fine. In a country like China that’s been through so much, people are less generally secure and more aware, that sudden adverse events can and do happen. We’ve all been forced to confirm that with COVID. And as Bessie said in some ways that’s quite healthy.

Christian Klepp  32:03

Indeed. This has been so great. You’ve given such great advice for the listeners, for entrepreneurs and B2B businesses out there that are trying to like, recalibrate, I think is the right word and navigate through these difficult times, and also to help them to reassess their current business models. So that they address not only the challenges that they are facing in their own businesses, but also to help address the challenges of their own customers. So, you’ve probably heard this, as you rightfully alluded to Peter,  this is probably another one of those buzzwords that you hear at least 10 times a day but, the new normal. Although many would argue that the new normal has already been here for a while, but in your own words, what do you believe the new normal will be but we are going to be coming back to?

Peter Bomer  33:02

For me, I’m just not sure I really believe in the idea of normal. Our lot is going to change as a result of this, we can all speculate on some of the things that are likely to happen. It will vary wherever you are in the world. But for example, there is likely to be a lot more homeworking and video conferencing rather than face to face meetings, those sorts of things which actually have potential to have very big impact on countries and cultures and economy. But I think for me that and it’s sort of a theme I’ve been trying to get across throughout this chat, is that the idea of normal isn’t necessarily a very helpful one. You need to be at all times on your toes and watching what’s really happening because even if there isn’t a crisis, there might be an opportunity that you’ll spot if you’re acting that way and others won’t. So the new normal, if you want to put it that way for me is: Let’s be a bit cautious about the idea that there is a sort of settled state that somehow more predictable that we will return to. I think that’s, at all times a little bit of an illusion. It comes to the fore at times like this, but I think companies and individuals benefit by not assuming that anything will ever be normal and trying to read what’s going on around them at all times.

Bessie Lee  34:36

Yeah, Chris, like you said, I mean, we heard or read and we ourselves use new normal a lot as well recently. I think a lot of us use new normal, because that’s probably the best term to describe something that we have no idea what’s gonna look like.

Christian Klepp  34:56

They had to coin phrase and that was it.

Bessie Lee  34:59

So new normal, Everybody’s “Oh. Yeah, I know what you’re talking about.” But yeah, what it actually means, but I know what you are talking about. I think it’s probably like a wakeup call. It’s a wakeup call to force you to revisit all the models that you have in the past. What’s the purpose of having everybody work in the office? I’ve been working from home since January 21. So it’s been more than six months now. What’s the purpose of having an office? What’s the purpose of having a field sales team to go out there and do door to door or face to face sales? What’s the purpose of having more predominantly retail distribution channels? Why did you embrace more online or e-commerce channel? So I think there’s gonna be a lot of these questions being answered. And I hope people or organizations will try seriously answer those questions and drive some changes. What I worry was, most people are just waiting around to get back to normal. They’re still waiting for time to go back to the office to work. So I’m afraid to probably many people the new normal, will still gonna be the old normal.

Christian Klepp  36:27

Well, as you did mention, at the beginning of this conversation, this is a journey that not everybody can take. They probably should be because it will help us to move forward and in a more seamless manner, but again, it’s resistance to change. So did you have any advice or thoughts that you’d like to leave our listeners with?

Peter Bomer  36:56

In a way, I think we’ve probably banged on about advice and thoughts, throughout the whole conversation. Rather than repeat all of that, let me try and say something a little fresh at least, I really liked what Bessie was just saying about, do you really need a field sales team or space staff or any number of other things? The advice I would give is, be very sure at all times, that what you’re trying to do is find the best way to do something. Even if that means changing, rather than the way that you’re familiar with doing something. I’ve tried to make that my sort of code through life if you like. It’s served me very well, and led to an interesting and unusual career for me. Of course, I’m just one person and my opinions are my own ,so many other people would think that quite foolish and have other equally interesting and valid approaches. But for me, it’s always be looking for what’s the best way to do this, rather than what’s the way that we’re used to doing this.

Bessie Lee  38:21

Chris, I’m sure many of your listeners working big corporate. It’s got to be more than one quiet moment that business leaders will ask or say to himself or herself that I wish I have an opportunity to do this all over again. And I think what COVID-19 gave you is that chance to do it all over again, there is appetite for change. There is appetite or disruption, there’s appetite for innovation in the market. This is your plans to do it all over again, do it differently. Don’t let it pass. If you let it pass, you miss your chance, and who knows when the next I don’t want to say pandemic, but when one wasn’t one will be the next big opportunities come around, maybe another 20 years.

Peter Bomer  39:12

Agree on. Don’t do that on the basis that it’s a one off response to a crisis. Do right. You should be doing all the time.

Christian Klepp  39:24

As they say, the world is going through these different stages now, as a result of the crisis and the first one is to react. Then the second stage is to pivot, then it’s to survive, and then it’s to thrive. And companies that are going through these different stages as well the way that they make decisions based on the current circumstances, but also, at the same time trying to look forward will help them to determine how they’re gonna come out of this crisis.

Christian Klepp  40:00

Peter and Bessie, this has been an excellent session. And very refreshing, very inspiring, very insightful. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing. What’s the best way for people out there to connect with you?

Bessie Lee  40:14

I’m available on all social network. So if you go on LinkedIn and search Bessie Lee, you’ll be able to find me.

Peter Bomer  40:24

LinkedIn best for me, I’m still really plugged into the Chinese social media environment. So not very active on Facebook. But I am on LinkedIn. Peter Bomer, and I’d be delighted to hear from anyone, Chris, it’s been a real pleasure. Thank you very much for inviting us on and we’d be delighted to come back anytime you’d like us to. And we wish you the very best of luck with it. I think you’re putting together some very interesting podcasts.

Bessie Lee  40:52

I can’t wait to listen.

Christian Klepp  40:54

Thank you very much. And  take care, be safe and I’ll talk to both of you soon.

Bessie Lee  40:58

Okay.

Peter Bomer  40:59

You take care.

Christian Klepp  41:00

Okay, bye.

Bessie Lee  41:01

Thank you. Bye.

Christian Klepp  41:04

Thank you for joining us on this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast. To learn more about what we do here EINBLICK, please visit our website at www.einblick.co and be sure to subscribe to the show on iTunes or your favorite podcast player.