1
00:00:00,900 --> 00:00:03,360
We all know that in B2B
marketing, convincing and

2
00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,240
demonstrating to a buying
committee that you are the right

3
00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,620
partner and company of choice is
no small feat. It requires a

4
00:00:10,620 --> 00:00:13,320
deeper understanding of a
company's challenges, the demand

5
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,640
triggers, how they buy, how they
make decisions, and their

6
00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,780
selection criteria. So how can
B2B marketers develop the right

7
00:00:21,780 --> 00:00:23,001
messaging that speaks to
different members of the buying

8
00:00:23,001 --> 00:00:26,325
committee. Welcome to this
episode of the B2B Marketers on

9
00:00:26,325 --> 00:00:30,885
a Mission podcast, and I'm your
host, Christian Klepp. Today,

10
00:00:30,885 --> 00:00:33,285
I'll be talking to Douglas
Abbott, who will be answering

11
00:00:33,285 --> 00:00:37,545
this question. He's the CEO and
Founder at Contrasted, which

12
00:00:37,545 --> 00:00:41,685
helps B2B companies not only
generate leads, but also get the

13
00:00:41,685 --> 00:00:45,825
right results. Tune in to find
out more about what this B2B

14
00:00:45,825 --> 00:00:54,510
marketers mission is. All right,
and I'm gonna say, Mr. Douglas

15
00:00:54,510 --> 00:00:55,710
Abbott, welcome to the show.

16
00:00:55,710 --> 00:00:57,390
Thanks. Great to be here.

17
00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,000
Great to have you on the show.
Douglas, I'm really looking for

18
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,820
this conversation, because, man,
this is something that I think

19
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,800
B2B marketing teams really need
to pay more attention to. Let's

20
00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,620
not keep the audience in
suspense for too long. Let's

21
00:01:10,620 --> 00:01:13,800
just dive right into the topic.
If we, if we can, let's do it

22
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,520
all. Right, fantastic. Okay, so
Douglas, you're, I'm gonna say

23
00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,480
you're on a mission to combine
strategy, execution and

24
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,365
proprietary AI to drive real
pipeline. But for this

25
00:01:25,365 --> 00:01:29,145
conversation, I'd like to focus
on the topic of how B2B

26
00:01:29,145 --> 00:01:33,105
marketers can develop messaging
that speaks to different members

27
00:01:33,105 --> 00:01:37,065
of the buying committee. And I
know a lot of people, they

28
00:01:37,065 --> 00:01:39,885
probably glaze over that, or
they probably feel that that's

29
00:01:39,885 --> 00:01:43,005
someone else's job, but I have
been in situations as I'm sure

30
00:01:43,005 --> 00:01:47,910
you have, where I've seen that
go, all right, right, so let's

31
00:01:47,910 --> 00:01:50,370
kick off the conversation with
two questions, and I'm happy to

32
00:01:50,370 --> 00:01:53,790
repeat them. Okay, so question
number one is, why do you think

33
00:01:53,790 --> 00:01:56,490
it's so important for B2B
marketers to understand who the

34
00:01:56,490 --> 00:02:00,090
different members of the buying
committee are? And number two,

35
00:02:00,090 --> 00:02:03,630
where do you see most marketing
teams struggle regarding the

36
00:02:03,630 --> 00:02:03,870
above?

37
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,040
Yeah, so you know, I think the
reason it's so important is that

38
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,700
in most of these, you know,
large B2B purchase decisions,

39
00:02:11,700 --> 00:02:15,540
it's going to touch multiple
departments. So you know, those

40
00:02:15,540 --> 00:02:18,960
decisions to buy a product like
they rarely rest with one

41
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,460
person. There is the buying
committee. So when you talk

42
00:02:23,460 --> 00:02:27,465
about the buying committee, you
know each person is going to

43
00:02:27,465 --> 00:02:30,405
care about different outcomes,
and they're going to want

44
00:02:30,405 --> 00:02:34,725
different things from a product,
from a software. So, you know,

45
00:02:34,725 --> 00:02:38,085
the CFO might want cost
efficiency, the head of ops

46
00:02:38,085 --> 00:02:42,165
might want usability. The CIO
might care about how it

47
00:02:42,165 --> 00:02:45,345
integrates with their current
tech stack.

48
00:02:45,345 --> 00:02:50,265
So and I think where I see
people struggle is that they

49
00:02:50,265 --> 00:02:54,750
will focus on a generic message
that might be relevant to an

50
00:02:54,750 --> 00:02:59,010
organization, but they're not
actually speaking to the needs

51
00:02:59,010 --> 00:03:02,910
and outcomes that those
individual members of the buying

52
00:03:02,910 --> 00:03:03,630
committee want.

53
00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:06,900
Yeah, yeah, no, that's
absolutely right. It's, it's

54
00:03:06,900 --> 00:03:10,200
this whole, I hate to use this,
because I feel it's so overused,

55
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,100
but like, one size fits all
right. Like, it's one of these.

56
00:03:14,100 --> 00:03:18,480
Like, okay, well, let's just
have this very top level generic

57
00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,020
messaging that that appeals to
everybody. But yeah, guess what?

58
00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:29,325
No, it does not to your point.
It's the CFO. One of my favorite

59
00:03:29,325 --> 00:03:33,345
people is, yeah, is going to
look at something? It's going to

60
00:03:33,345 --> 00:03:36,285
look at it from a different
lens, as compared to somebody

61
00:03:36,285 --> 00:03:40,905
who's in operations, who is in
procurement. I imagine

62
00:03:41,385 --> 00:03:47,145
procurement, slash purchasing.
Who is in it, or the CSOs, etc,

63
00:03:47,145 --> 00:03:48,585
etc, right? So...

64
00:03:48,585 --> 00:03:50,025
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

65
00:03:50,025 --> 00:03:55,050
Okay. And why? Why do you think
it's all so based on, based on

66
00:03:55,050 --> 00:03:57,630
that and based on understanding
that all of these people have

67
00:03:57,630 --> 00:04:01,230
different roles and
responsibilities. What role will

68
00:04:01,230 --> 00:04:05,250
the marketing team have to play
in investigating and finding out

69
00:04:05,250 --> 00:04:08,010
who those people are and what
they're looking for? As a follow

70
00:04:08,010 --> 00:04:08,490
up question.

71
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,720
The marketing team should know
who, everyone in the

72
00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,080
organization should know who the
members of the buying committee

73
00:04:15,380 --> 00:04:19,220
are. If that's not happening,
then you know the marketing team

74
00:04:19,220 --> 00:04:24,080
should be talking to leadership,
to sales, to everyone about, you

75
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,640
know, understanding who those
people are when it comes to, you

76
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,765
know, marketing's role. That's
where we can talk about, you

77
00:04:32,765 --> 00:04:38,885
know, how to focus messaging. So
I think in overall kind of

78
00:04:38,885 --> 00:04:41,825
message about your company, what
your product does, like one

79
00:04:41,825 --> 00:04:45,905
broad message, it's okay, but
when you think about how to

80
00:04:45,905 --> 00:04:49,205
actually move people through the
pipeline, you need to speak to

81
00:04:49,205 --> 00:04:53,645
each one of those people
individually. So that's where

82
00:04:53,645 --> 00:04:57,950
marketing can help craft what
those messages need to be to

83
00:04:57,950 --> 00:04:59,930
each one of those people on the
buying committee.

84
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:04,100
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
I'm going to move us on to the

85
00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:06,800
next question, which is about
these you know, if we're talking

86
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,380
about crafting the right
messaging, right for members the

87
00:05:09,380 --> 00:05:13,340
buying committee, what are some
of these key pitfalls that B2B

88
00:05:13,340 --> 00:05:15,800
marketers need to avoid, and
what should they be doing

89
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:16,280
instead?

90
00:05:17,220 --> 00:05:21,420
I would say that people are
probably focusing a lot on

91
00:05:21,420 --> 00:05:24,690
product led messaging. My
product does this. It does that.

92
00:05:25,470 --> 00:05:29,730
It can save X amount of time, X
amount of money. All those

93
00:05:29,730 --> 00:05:33,360
things are good, but they need
to be applied to the right

94
00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,250
person. So it should be focusing
on audience led messaging. And

95
00:05:38,250 --> 00:05:42,150
then, you know, later, that'll
bring us into how do you segment

96
00:05:42,180 --> 00:05:44,490
your audience? How do you target
them differently? You'll need to

97
00:05:44,490 --> 00:05:48,360
figure that out, but you can
have an overall message that

98
00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,480
goes to everyone, but you also
need to supplement that with,

99
00:05:51,690 --> 00:05:55,290
you know, the key benefits,
values, outcomes that each

100
00:05:55,290 --> 00:05:57,930
person is going to get. Who's on
that buying committee?

101
00:05:58,410 --> 00:06:02,400
Absolutely, absolutely. What are
some of these other pitfalls

102
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,250
that you think they should be
avoiding, or perhaps what should

103
00:06:05,250 --> 00:06:09,270
they be doing instead? Is rather
understanding, like what each of

104
00:06:09,270 --> 00:06:12,690
the pain points of these members
of the buying committee are,

105
00:06:12,810 --> 00:06:16,740
because that way they would
understand, okay, so the finance

106
00:06:16,740 --> 00:06:20,430
guy has a different pain point
from the operations guy, which

107
00:06:20,430 --> 00:06:24,270
almost sounds like table stakes,
but in reality, if you dig

108
00:06:24,270 --> 00:06:29,100
deeper to understand, okay, so
that's what their challenge is.

109
00:06:29,370 --> 00:06:32,910
That's what they're mandated to
do, and therefore, that's what

110
00:06:32,910 --> 00:06:35,880
they're looking for in a
solutions provider, that

111
00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:37,050
knowledge might be helpful,
right?

112
00:06:38,020 --> 00:06:41,140
Yeah, exactly. And that's kind
of where research starts to come

113
00:06:41,140 --> 00:06:43,960
into play. And I think that's
another big area where marketing

114
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:44,440
can help.

115
00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:48,760
Absolutely. And thank you for
setting that up. And so please

116
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:54,760
do tell right, how can, how can
they help by and how can they

117
00:06:54,820 --> 00:06:57,160
lead with research? Walk us
through that process.

118
00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:00,360
Yeah, so I think there's,
there's kind of two places to

119
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,140
look for research. There's
internal and there's external.

120
00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:07,380
When you're talking about
internal, you know, your sales

121
00:07:07,380 --> 00:07:11,580
team, your customer support team
and your customers, there's so

122
00:07:11,580 --> 00:07:14,640
much you can mine from that you
know your sales team can help

123
00:07:14,820 --> 00:07:18,540
understand, like, which product
features or benefits can, you

124
00:07:18,540 --> 00:07:20,760
know, really light up the
conversation when they're doing

125
00:07:20,805 --> 00:07:25,725
a demo, customer support can
tell you pain points, how

126
00:07:25,725 --> 00:07:29,025
they're feeling. And then you
know, most importantly, like

127
00:07:29,025 --> 00:07:31,365
your customers can tell you
exactly how your products

128
00:07:31,365 --> 00:07:35,265
helping them. And you know that
can, that can be at the

129
00:07:35,265 --> 00:07:38,325
individual buying committee
member level. It doesn't have to

130
00:07:38,325 --> 00:07:42,945
be at an organizational level.
And then I think the other is

131
00:07:43,050 --> 00:07:48,090
kind of the external, so that
can be things like industry

132
00:07:48,090 --> 00:07:52,890
trends, industry pain points,
regulatory environment, you

133
00:07:52,890 --> 00:07:56,310
know, all those things are
there, and they can kind of help

134
00:07:56,370 --> 00:07:59,490
guide you on how to position
your product to solve problems.

135
00:07:59,790 --> 00:08:02,970
And then you can kind of look to
combine that external and

136
00:08:02,970 --> 00:08:06,630
internal research into, you
know, a coherent messaging

137
00:08:06,630 --> 00:08:10,875
strategy, and then start to, you
know, build out your messaging

138
00:08:10,875 --> 00:08:11,595
matrix.

139
00:08:12,315 --> 00:08:15,975
Absolutely, absolutely no, some
really great points I have. I

140
00:08:15,975 --> 00:08:19,395
had one or two follow up
questions for you to just

141
00:08:19,695 --> 00:08:21,975
talking about, like,
understanding the customer's

142
00:08:21,975 --> 00:08:24,795
pain points and seeing where
they're at in terms of, like,

143
00:08:24,795 --> 00:08:28,155
Okay, this is the challenge
they're facing. This is also

144
00:08:28,155 --> 00:08:31,800
perhaps what was the demand
trigger right like, this is what

145
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,000
motivated them to look for the
specific product or solution and

146
00:08:36,420 --> 00:08:39,780
and based on that, they're
trying to look for the right

147
00:08:39,780 --> 00:08:43,800
service provider and determine
which one of these service

148
00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:50,460
providers then fits within their
specified criteria. Would it

149
00:08:50,460 --> 00:08:52,620
also make sense? And I know this
is harder to do, because,

150
00:08:52,620 --> 00:08:56,265
believe me, I've gone through
it. But like would it also make

151
00:08:56,265 --> 00:09:01,965
sense to interview, if possible,
clients that perhaps turned

152
00:09:02,805 --> 00:09:05,805
clients that are no longer using
the product because they were

153
00:09:05,805 --> 00:09:10,425
not satisfied. And I know that's
a much more complicated

154
00:09:10,425 --> 00:09:19,050
conversation
reason why we weren't satisfied,

155
00:09:19,050 --> 00:09:30,450
because it's also, it's also
about the continuous improvement

156
00:09:24,300 --> 00:09:27,217
So, yeah, definitely. I mean, I
think that that's super

157
00:09:27,270 --> 00:09:30,454
important, like, even beyond the
marketing use case, just in

158
00:09:30,507 --> 00:09:33,372
terms of, like, how an
organization's functioning, you

159
00:09:30,510 --> 00:09:36,150
of said solution, right?

160
00:09:33,425 --> 00:09:36,820
know, is it? Is it the customer
service that was the problem? Is

161
00:09:36,873 --> 00:09:39,950
it, you know, a specific feature
of the product that was a

162
00:09:40,003 --> 00:09:43,293
problem? There's so many things
there, so really understanding

163
00:09:43,346 --> 00:09:46,317
just why someone would churn
would be, you know, really,

164
00:09:46,370 --> 00:09:49,765
really key for the organization.
And then, you know, I think you

165
00:09:49,818 --> 00:09:52,842
can, you can address that
through product, and then start

166
00:09:52,895 --> 00:09:55,230
to work it into your marketing
copy as well.

167
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,558
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely,
absolutely, walk us through this

168
00:09:55,000 --> 00:11:06,115
When you kind of start off and
get buy in from the other

169
00:09:58,618 --> 00:10:01,939
a little bit like in terms of,
because we know that it's

170
00:10:01,999 --> 00:10:05,202
important to do this customer
research right, and it's

171
00:10:05,261 --> 00:10:08,642
important to, like, determine,
Okay, how do we craft this

172
00:10:08,701 --> 00:10:12,319
messaging that appeals to the
different members of the buyers

173
00:10:12,379 --> 00:10:16,115
committee? Theoretically, that's
exactly what we should do. And

174
00:10:16,175 --> 00:10:19,734
yes, absolutely, you're right.
Let's go ahead and get it out

175
00:10:19,793 --> 00:10:22,877
there, but I from my own
experience in reality or in

176
00:10:22,937 --> 00:10:26,199
application, that could be a
very complicated logistics

177
00:10:26,258 --> 00:10:29,461
exercise, right? So walk us
through just based on your

178
00:10:29,521 --> 00:10:32,546
experience. How, how should
marketers and the other

179
00:10:32,605 --> 00:10:36,104
departments, because they need
to work in tandem with other

180
00:10:36,164 --> 00:10:39,782
teams, right? They shouldn't be
like doing this in isolation.

181
00:10:39,841 --> 00:10:43,697
Walk us through. Walk us through
that process. Like, how do they,

182
00:10:43,756 --> 00:10:47,374
how should they go about doing
that research? How do they get

183
00:10:47,433 --> 00:10:50,459
buy in from the other
departments so that they feel

184
00:10:50,518 --> 00:10:54,255
invested in as well, that it's
not one of these? Like, oh gosh,

185
00:10:54,314 --> 00:10:57,754
here, here's marketing again.
What do they want this time,

186
00:10:57,813 --> 00:10:59,890
right? Like, leave me alone, right?

187
00:11:06,115 --> 00:11:10,015
departments, you know, take them
along on the journey and make

188
00:11:10,015 --> 00:11:13,255
sure they understand it's for
everyone's benefit, not just for

189
00:11:13,255 --> 00:11:18,835
marketing's benefit. So for
sales, as an example, they, you

190
00:11:18,835 --> 00:11:23,095
know, ask them when they're on
calls with prospects, who's on

191
00:11:23,095 --> 00:11:26,155
the calls? What's the positive
things they're responding to?

192
00:11:26,155 --> 00:11:29,635
What's the negative things
they're responding to? And just

193
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:32,680
say, we're trying to make your
sales calls actually easier,

194
00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:35,680
because we're going to message
the positive benefits to

195
00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:38,980
prospects, and they're going to
know all this coming in, and

196
00:11:38,980 --> 00:11:41,440
we're going to address the
things they're concerned about

197
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,620
before you even talk to them. So
that isn't something you have to

198
00:11:44,620 --> 00:11:47,800
spend time talking about. That's
kind of like one example for the

199
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,640
sales team, but you can do that
across the organization, and

200
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,085
hopefully everyone kind of sees
the benefit in that.

201
00:11:54,385 --> 00:11:59,485
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely,
absolutely. Based on your

202
00:11:59,485 --> 00:12:02,785
experience, how can developing
the right messaging for the

203
00:12:02,785 --> 00:12:06,205
different members of the buying
committee? A, strategically

204
00:12:06,205 --> 00:12:10,405
position companies against their
competitors, and B, influence

205
00:12:10,405 --> 00:12:13,150
and help members of the buying
committee to make an informed

206
00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:13,690
decision.

207
00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:18,580
I think the strategically
positioning yourself against

208
00:12:18,580 --> 00:12:22,420
competitors is a really cool
one. I'll just say one of the

209
00:12:22,420 --> 00:12:26,320
things we're doing internally is
like, we have a tool, and what

210
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,620
does it that kind of looks
through all of the review sites,

211
00:12:29,620 --> 00:12:34,960
G2, Capterra, kind of all of
those like B2B review sites, and

212
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,125
it kind of parses the data and
separates it into positive and

213
00:12:38,125 --> 00:12:44,425
negative themes for the product
and for customer service. So

214
00:12:44,605 --> 00:12:49,105
what we do is, you know, we can
run that for you can run that

215
00:12:49,105 --> 00:12:53,365
for your company, and you can
run it for your competitors. So

216
00:12:53,485 --> 00:12:56,965
then you can kind of start to
see the differences. So if you

217
00:12:56,965 --> 00:13:01,465
start picking up a trend that
your competitor doesn't have

218
00:13:01,510 --> 00:13:04,990
very good customer service, you
can start to include that in

219
00:13:04,990 --> 00:13:09,850
your messaging, as you know, a
real differentiator. And you

220
00:13:09,850 --> 00:13:13,090
know, potentially try to try to
push those competitors clients,

221
00:13:13,090 --> 00:13:16,990
or if someone's deciding, you
know, they can hopefully choose

222
00:13:16,990 --> 00:13:21,550
you. But yeah, it can be a real
strategic differentiator if you

223
00:13:21,550 --> 00:13:24,235
can find something that you're
particularly good at and your

224
00:13:24,235 --> 00:13:27,595
competitor is not good at. And
then I think you know on the

225
00:13:27,595 --> 00:13:31,135
second point in terms of
influencing the buying

226
00:13:31,135 --> 00:13:34,195
committee, every member of the
buying committee is going to

227
00:13:34,195 --> 00:13:37,735
need their concerns addressed
before they sign off on a deal.

228
00:13:37,975 --> 00:13:43,735
So the faster that you are, you
know, addressing those concerns

229
00:13:43,855 --> 00:13:45,760
through your marketing
materials, through your sales

230
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,000
teams, through your messaging,
the more velocity your pipeline

231
00:13:49,060 --> 00:13:51,340
is going to get and the faster
you're going to close deals.

232
00:13:51,705 --> 00:13:55,245
Absolutely, absolutely, you
touched on something that I

233
00:13:55,245 --> 00:13:58,725
wanted to go back to, like you
mentioned that you have this

234
00:13:58,725 --> 00:14:03,225
tool that helps to review not
just a company's website, but

235
00:14:03,405 --> 00:14:06,945
competitors websites as well.
And it helps to separate like

236
00:14:06,945 --> 00:14:11,625
positive from negative reviews
and so forth when it comes to

237
00:14:11,625 --> 00:14:14,610
like, research and perhaps even
crafting messaging. I mean,

238
00:14:14,610 --> 00:14:19,290
like, look, we are in 2025 and I
can't help but ask you this

239
00:14:19,290 --> 00:14:25,830
question about AI, right? How
has, how has AI helped to make

240
00:14:25,830 --> 00:14:30,270
this process more efficient? And
I'm trying to be careful about

241
00:14:30,270 --> 00:14:33,210
the way that I word this,
because I'm not trying to imply,

242
00:14:33,630 --> 00:14:37,635
please use AI as a shortcut,
right? That's not what I'm

243
00:14:37,635 --> 00:14:40,455
implying at all. But like, just
from your experience, how has

244
00:14:40,455 --> 00:14:44,715
that helped? How has AI helped
you and your team to craft this

245
00:14:44,715 --> 00:14:57,195
right messaging for the buying
committee?

246
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,058
The thing I like about AI is
when it's done right, it enables

247
00:14:51,128 --> 00:14:55,416
us to do things we wouldn't have
had the time to do before. So

248
00:14:55,485 --> 00:14:59,704
our team would not have had the
time to look through hundreds

249
00:14:59,773 --> 00:15:03,784
and hundreds. If not, thousands
of Capterra reviews and G2

250
00:15:03,853 --> 00:15:08,141
reviews and put them into boxes
and summarize and do all those

251
00:15:08,210 --> 00:15:12,360
things. But AI can do that. So,
you know, as long as you can

252
00:15:12,429 --> 00:15:16,302
kind of get something purpose
built for, you know, an AI

253
00:15:16,371 --> 00:15:20,729
purpose built for something that
you actually need and is going

254
00:15:20,798 --> 00:15:24,947
to deliver value to you, you
know, I really, really like it.

255
00:15:25,017 --> 00:15:29,235
So we've been able to do that,
and, you know, really do these

256
00:15:29,305 --> 00:15:33,662
competitive analysis that just
would have taken either too much

257
00:15:33,731 --> 00:15:37,535
time or would have cost, you
know, tens of thousands of

258
00:15:37,604 --> 00:15:42,030
dollars to have a research firm
do it. So that's, that's where I

259
00:15:42,099 --> 00:15:46,457
see, I see the benefit. I think
the thing you have to watch out

260
00:15:46,526 --> 00:15:50,814
for is, like, the kind of, do it
all AI, sort of things. Like,

261
00:15:50,883 --> 00:15:55,240
you don't want to just like, go
to a ChatGPT box and say, like,

262
00:15:55,309 --> 00:15:59,597
Hey, can you summarize all the
reviews of Capterra and on for,

263
00:15:59,666 --> 00:16:03,885
you know, it's just not gonna,
gonna do it right? But if it's

264
00:16:03,954 --> 00:16:07,620
done with, you know, built
properly, with good prompt

265
00:16:07,689 --> 00:16:12,185
engineering, and it's, you know,
repeated and tested, it can be a

266
00:16:10,755 --> 00:17:22,050
is that you kind of trust
ChatGPT, because you want to

267
00:16:12,254 --> 00:16:13,015
huge value.

268
00:17:22,050 --> 00:17:26,730
save some time or save some
money on your messaging plan,

269
00:17:27,150 --> 00:17:31,050
you get a messaging plan that's
totally wrong, and then you go

270
00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:36,810
spend your media dollars, sales
time, sales teams time with an

271
00:17:36,810 --> 00:17:39,735
incorrect message that ends up
kind of costing you more money

272
00:17:39,735 --> 00:17:42,735
because It wasn't properly
vetted, and, you know, wasn't,

273
00:17:42,795 --> 00:17:45,195
you know, wasn't the right
message that your buying

274
00:17:45,195 --> 00:17:46,995
committee members kind of need
to hear.

275
00:17:47,655 --> 00:17:50,655
And there you have it. There you
have it. The other thing too is

276
00:17:50,655 --> 00:17:54,135
that ChatGPT will spit out
something that's quite generic

277
00:17:54,195 --> 00:17:59,055
in my experience, and it's also
really hard to verify, because,

278
00:17:59,055 --> 00:18:02,775
you know, you can't really see
the sources, right? That's the

279
00:18:02,775 --> 00:18:04,755
other thing. So it might lend
itself to things like

280
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,640
plagiarism, right? Which, which
people who are not in this field

281
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,340
or not, who are not in this
discipline probably don't really

282
00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:15,000
think about much, but yeah, that
is serious too, right?

283
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:21,060
Yeah. And you know, in all of
the tools we use internally for

284
00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:25,065
ourselves. They all have the AI
tools. They all have. They cite

285
00:18:25,065 --> 00:18:28,785
every source that they use to
come up with something. This is

286
00:18:28,785 --> 00:18:32,385
more for when we're doing
research. But, yeah, you want to

287
00:18:32,385 --> 00:18:34,065
verify. You definitely want to.

288
00:18:34,065 --> 00:18:37,185
Absolutely, absolutely, and you
know, especially in this day and

289
00:18:37,185 --> 00:18:40,005
age, where I know if this has
been your experience, it

290
00:18:40,005 --> 00:18:44,325
certainly has been mined that
the trust gap is getting bigger

291
00:18:44,325 --> 00:18:48,210
and bigger. Like customers tend
to be more distrustful just

292
00:18:48,210 --> 00:18:51,390
because of how much information,
or perhaps even misinformation,

293
00:18:51,390 --> 00:18:54,330
is out there, right? So they
always want to verify it, and

294
00:18:54,330 --> 00:18:58,290
that's why you have these, you
know, fact checkers, right? Love

295
00:18:58,290 --> 00:19:02,130
them or hate them, right? Even
after a press conference, fact

296
00:19:02,130 --> 00:19:03,450
check what he said, right?

297
00:19:04,350 --> 00:19:09,270
Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean,
it's, you know, one of the key

298
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:11,175
trends across, like, everything
in life, right?

299
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:16,940
Absolutely, absolutely, if you
can, can you give us an example,

300
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,900
perhaps even from your own
company, of, like, a client that

301
00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:24,740
you've helped in terms of
developing this, this right

302
00:19:24,740 --> 00:19:29,660
messaging for their clients,
buying committee, right? And

303
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:32,540
maybe, maybe they were dealing
with some kind of challenge, and

304
00:19:32,540 --> 00:19:35,405
they came to you and then, and
then walk us through how you

305
00:19:35,405 --> 00:19:38,045
help them solve that challenge.

306
00:19:38,645 --> 00:19:41,885
Yeah. So, you know, we go
through pretty comprehensive

307
00:19:41,885 --> 00:19:46,085
process where, if someone knows
exactly who their buying

308
00:19:46,085 --> 00:19:48,605
committee members are, that's
great. We'll work with that.

309
00:19:48,605 --> 00:19:51,485
Kind of do the research there,
to find their pain points, find

310
00:19:51,485 --> 00:19:54,005
the industry trends relevant to
them, all those things. But if

311
00:19:54,005 --> 00:19:57,605
they don't, we will, we will
kind of start there with the

312
00:19:57,605 --> 00:20:00,410
buying committee, and then we'll
kind of have that. Check

313
00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:04,490
internally, you know, with their
sales team to make sure, like,

314
00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:08,450
those are the people who are on
the calls, who are signing off,

315
00:20:09,170 --> 00:20:14,570
kind of getting insights there.
You know, we had one, which was

316
00:20:15,230 --> 00:20:20,390
one, one client of ours there,
like, like, kind of, like an ERP

317
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:23,015
(Enterprise Resource Planning)
solution, and, like, a really

318
00:20:23,015 --> 00:20:28,175
specific technical field. And,
you know, they were talking a

319
00:20:28,175 --> 00:20:34,055
lot to the people who would use
it on the day to day basis. But

320
00:20:34,355 --> 00:20:37,175
when we came in, we kind of
realized that they weren't

321
00:20:37,175 --> 00:20:41,195
talking to the CFOs, and that
was, you know, a potential

322
00:20:41,195 --> 00:20:44,375
blocker on a lot of the deals.
So we started, you know,

323
00:20:44,375 --> 00:20:48,800
specifically messaging the CFOs
in the relevant industry, and

324
00:20:49,220 --> 00:20:51,560
they've actually turned out to
be one of the biggest lead

325
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,680
sources, because, you know,
they're on that buying

326
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,600
committee, and they hear, Oh, we
can get more efficient, you

327
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,020
know, both in terms of, like,
our operations time, and also

328
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,260
save money. So, you know, it's a
really kind of appealing message

329
00:21:06,260 --> 00:21:06,740
to them.

330
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,260
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And again, it would have been

331
00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:14,340
difficult to, like, find that
out had you not done any due

332
00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:17,400
diligence to, like, find out
exactly. Okay, so what is it

333
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,540
that these that the specific
function is dealing with and

334
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,360
what's motivating them, again,
going back to the whole demand

335
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,540
trigger thing, what's, what's
motivating them to go out and

336
00:21:27,540 --> 00:21:30,165
find a solution, and what
appeals to them that when they

337
00:21:30,165 --> 00:21:31,785
see the message, they'll be
like, Yeah, you know what?

338
00:21:31,785 --> 00:21:34,725
That's like. That's exactly what
I'm going through right now.

339
00:21:35,085 --> 00:21:38,205
Yeah, exactly. And I think just,
and just as important as like,

340
00:21:38,205 --> 00:21:42,645
addressing their concerns up
front. So if you know, a problem

341
00:21:42,645 --> 00:21:45,585
in this particular example, a
lot of times is like, it takes a

342
00:21:45,585 --> 00:21:48,765
long time to switch. If you're
switching Europe, it's like, you

343
00:21:48,765 --> 00:21:52,665
know, six months or 12 months to
switch. And no one really wants

344
00:21:52,665 --> 00:21:56,190
to go through that, but this
company is usually able to do it

345
00:21:56,190 --> 00:22:00,030
in about six to eight weeks. So
just like having that insight,

346
00:22:00,030 --> 00:22:02,850
getting it up from the messaging
can really, you know, lay a lot

347
00:22:02,850 --> 00:22:04,950
of concerns, you know, before
they even happen.

348
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,100
Absolutely, absolutely like,
it's, it's like quantifying the

349
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:14,380
benefits right? Upfront,
fantastic. Okay, we get to the

350
00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:16,720
point the conversation where
we're talking about actionable

351
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,660
tips, and you've given us quite
a bit already, right? But again,

352
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,660
just imagine that there is
somebody out there, a B2B

353
00:22:22,660 --> 00:22:25,360
marketer that's listening to
this interview, and that's

354
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:28,660
saying, You know what? This
topic that Christian and Douglas

355
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,065
are talking about. This really
speaks to me, because this is

356
00:22:32,065 --> 00:22:36,145
exactly what we're going through
in terms of crafting the

357
00:22:36,145 --> 00:22:38,545
identifying who the members of
the buying committee are, and

358
00:22:38,545 --> 00:22:41,725
crafting messages specifically
for them, what are like based on

359
00:22:41,725 --> 00:22:44,545
everything that you've said, if
you were to recap it like into

360
00:22:44,545 --> 00:22:49,345
three to five points, what would
you say they can do right now,

361
00:22:49,345 --> 00:22:50,305
to take action?

362
00:22:51,745 --> 00:22:56,110
Yeah, you know, I think one, if
you aren't clear on who the

363
00:22:56,110 --> 00:23:01,210
buying committee members are,
raise that with you know, sales

364
00:23:01,210 --> 00:23:04,810
leaders, leadership in general.
You know, that's kind of a code

365
00:23:04,810 --> 00:23:07,630
red, like, you know, companies
should really know who the

366
00:23:07,630 --> 00:23:10,750
members of their buying
committees are. I think once you

367
00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:17,155
know that, what I would do is
try to talk to two or three

368
00:23:17,155 --> 00:23:22,915
people with the job titles from
those buying committee members

369
00:23:23,215 --> 00:23:27,655
who are your customers. So, you
know, interview them if they're

370
00:23:27,655 --> 00:23:31,195
happy to do it. Maybe offer them
a little something you know,

371
00:23:31,195 --> 00:23:35,275
like, like discount or something
you know, something if, if you

372
00:23:35,275 --> 00:23:39,820
need to. But you know, try to
understand what pain points your

373
00:23:39,820 --> 00:23:43,780
products solving, and also, if
there's any outcomes that

374
00:23:43,780 --> 00:23:46,480
they've driven from the use of
your product, because, you know,

375
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,460
that can lead to a case study,
super compelling. But yeah, that

376
00:23:51,460 --> 00:23:54,820
would be kind of the first thing
is to talk to them. I would also

377
00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:59,980
talk to sales, and I would say,
Okay, we have these members of

378
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,665
the buying committee. Are they
all on the phone with you, you

379
00:24:02,665 --> 00:24:06,805
know, when you're talking, when
you're trying to close a deal?

380
00:24:07,225 --> 00:24:09,865
What are both, you know, what do
they respond each what does each

381
00:24:09,865 --> 00:24:12,925
one of them respond to,
positively and negatively?

382
00:24:12,925 --> 00:24:17,125
And then, are there any kind of,
like features or portions of the

383
00:24:17,125 --> 00:24:20,425
sales demo that kind of make the
light go off, kind of get the

384
00:24:20,425 --> 00:24:24,310
insights from, you know, your
customers and your sales team.

385
00:24:24,970 --> 00:24:28,810
If you can do that external
research on, you know, industry

386
00:24:28,810 --> 00:24:33,250
trends, pain points, those sorts
of things, then you can start to

387
00:24:33,250 --> 00:24:37,870
build a messaging matrix so you
can say, Okay, this is, you

388
00:24:37,870 --> 00:24:42,730
know, buying committee member,
one they care about this. Our

389
00:24:42,730 --> 00:24:46,315
product solves it in this way.
So we should message, you know,

390
00:24:46,315 --> 00:24:50,755
in this way. And then once you
build that matrix, kind of audit

391
00:24:50,755 --> 00:24:54,115
your current marketing
materials, assets and

392
00:24:54,115 --> 00:24:56,995
everything, and see kind of what
you have that would, you know,

393
00:24:56,995 --> 00:25:01,015
align to basically those line
items. 90s, and what you would

394
00:25:01,015 --> 00:25:05,695
still kind of need to build, or,
yeah, need to kind of create.

395
00:25:06,475 --> 00:25:08,635
And I guess it's also really
important to test that

396
00:25:08,635 --> 00:25:10,900
messaging, right? Like, it's
not, it's not one of these,

397
00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:13,420
like, I used to call them the
internal high fives where, like,

398
00:25:13,420 --> 00:25:16,060
everybody internally goes, Yeah,
that's the right messaging. And

399
00:25:16,060 --> 00:25:18,880
then you take it out, and it's
like, nothing, right?

400
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:24,760
Yeah, every, every messaging you
know, AB, AB testing is super

401
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,420
key, and that can be on
everything from, like, just the

402
00:25:28,420 --> 00:25:33,565
basic kind of text, like
headline, to the asset you're

403
00:25:33,565 --> 00:25:37,105
promoting, if you're promoting,
like, a case study or a white

404
00:25:37,105 --> 00:25:40,825
paper, or, you know, something
else. Yeah, testing is always,

405
00:25:40,825 --> 00:25:42,085
you know, really important.

406
00:25:42,085 --> 00:25:45,925
Absolutely, absolutely. All
right, sir, get up on your

407
00:25:45,925 --> 00:25:50,605
soapbox. What is the status quo
in your area of expertise that

408
00:25:50,605 --> 00:25:53,785
you passionately disagree with?
And why?

409
00:25:55,450 --> 00:26:01,570
Yeah, I think I, you know, I
touched on some of this already,

410
00:26:01,570 --> 00:26:06,610
but I kind of want to talk about
AI, and because I hear a lot of

411
00:26:06,610 --> 00:26:11,110
both, AI is going to replace all
marketers and AI outputs are

412
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:16,570
garbage. And to me, both of
those are wrong. For me, AI

413
00:26:16,570 --> 00:26:20,455
should be used for the things.
AI is good at speed, scale,

414
00:26:20,455 --> 00:26:23,755
repeatable tasks, but humans
still need to be in charge of

415
00:26:23,755 --> 00:26:27,415
the strategy, especially if that
part of the strategy is telling

416
00:26:27,415 --> 00:26:33,415
AI what to do. You know, again,
for me, like the best AI, is

417
00:26:33,415 --> 00:26:38,815
niche. It's purpose built. It's
for a specific task. You know, I

418
00:26:38,815 --> 00:26:42,640
don't think that there's any AI
that can come in and run a

419
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,640
company's whole marketing right
now, like, you can't just, like,

420
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:48,820
go in and say, Hey, run my
marketing. That's not going to

421
00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:54,160
work. But I do think it's very
possible for an AI to, you know,

422
00:26:54,580 --> 00:26:57,880
be great at research, or be
great at looking for insights in

423
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,600
a data set or coming up with a
content strategy, if it's given

424
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:10,585
the right parameters. So I think
I am very in the middle of AI is

425
00:27:10,585 --> 00:27:15,085
horrible and is going to replace
everyone, and or and can do

426
00:27:15,085 --> 00:27:18,445
everything. And AI is horrible
because the outputs are garbage.

427
00:27:18,445 --> 00:27:21,625
I am kind of firmly in the
middle of, there's some good,

428
00:27:21,685 --> 00:27:23,965
there's some bad. It just needs
to be used the right way.

429
00:27:24,325 --> 00:27:27,145
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I
mean, I always tell people,

430
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:31,450
like, look, there's a time and
place for AI, I think to just

431
00:27:31,450 --> 00:27:35,530
completely reject it is foolish,
because it's creeping into every

432
00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:39,370
industry, right? It's not just
marketing. I mean, it's creeping

433
00:27:39,370 --> 00:27:44,470
into law. It's creeping into
healthcare, right? Like, yep, I

434
00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:47,350
know, but I know about the US,
but like a lot of the banks over

435
00:27:47,350 --> 00:27:51,775
here in Canada, when you call
the hotline, that's AI, how can

436
00:27:51,775 --> 00:27:55,495
I help you today? And then you,
you have to, you enter, I'm not

437
00:27:55,495 --> 00:27:59,335
gonna say a prompt,
about what it is you want to do.

438
00:27:59,335 --> 00:28:05,695
And then they put you into that
designated like, like channel or

439
00:28:05,695 --> 00:28:11,155
waiting line, right? And then,
and it takes about like 20

440
00:28:11,155 --> 00:28:14,320
minutes to actually get a hold
of  a real person, right? So,

441
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:15,160
yeah...

442
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:20,020
Pressing zero, operator,
operator, yes, correct, correct.

443
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,640
Or yeah, or even, like these,
these chats that you see on

444
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,240
websites, right? Like that pop
up, right? How can I help you

445
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,940
today? Douglas, right? And then,
and then it gives you the

446
00:28:30,940 --> 00:28:33,520
options, right? I mean, all of
that's AI, so, I mean, I feel

447
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,585
for certain tasks like that, I
think it's, I think it's okay,

448
00:28:38,005 --> 00:28:42,265
right? But again, to your point,
and I strongly believe this

449
00:28:42,265 --> 00:28:47,185
true, do not like rely on AI to
craft specific messaging for

450
00:28:47,185 --> 00:28:50,485
members of a buying committee in
a specific industry segment that

451
00:28:50,485 --> 00:28:56,125
AI might not necessarily know
much about, right?

452
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,521
You might use it to gather
information that you use to

453
00:28:58,590 --> 00:29:02,449
craft the messaging, but
ultimately, like you need to be

454
00:29:02,518 --> 00:29:06,790
the expert. So, you know, use it
to help, help, you know, make

455
00:29:06,859 --> 00:29:08,720
your expertise even more...

456
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,539
Absolutely, absolutely. So here
comes the bonus question. So

457
00:29:12,615 --> 00:29:16,777
rumor has it that you once were
based in a place called

458
00:29:16,852 --> 00:29:21,543
Singapore. And for those of you
that don't know where that is.

459
00:29:21,619 --> 00:29:26,083
It's a small city state in
Southeast Asia, and you, you set

460
00:29:26,159 --> 00:29:30,472
up your at the time, your
company's office and operations

461
00:29:27,800 --> 00:32:37,985
and expertise with the
listeners. Please. Quick intro

462
00:29:30,547 --> 00:29:34,860
there, if memory serves me
correctly. So the question is,

463
00:29:34,936 --> 00:29:39,324
What did you learn from that
experience abroad? And how is

464
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,864
that? How has that influenced?
How has that influenced your

465
00:29:43,940 --> 00:29:45,605
life and your company?

466
00:32:37,985 --> 00:32:40,565
to yourself and how folks out
there can get on to you.

467
00:32:40,565 --> 00:32:44,885
Totally. Yeah. So my name is
Douglas. I'm the Founder and CEO

468
00:32:44,885 --> 00:32:49,745
of Contrasted Marketing. We're a
kind of small agency focused on

469
00:32:49,805 --> 00:32:54,425
strategy execution for B2B
marketing. We've kind of our own

470
00:32:54,485 --> 00:32:58,205
suite of proprietary AI tools
that we use. And, yeah, we're

471
00:32:58,250 --> 00:33:01,370
kind of just, you know, experts
on LinkedIn, Google ads, all

472
00:33:01,370 --> 00:33:06,890
the, all the B2B platforms,
yeah, on a personal level, I'm a

473
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:11,330
dad of two. I love playing
basketball and watching English

474
00:33:11,330 --> 00:33:16,250
Premier League in my spare time.
Yeah, and that's that's got me.

475
00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:20,870
So you can reach out to
info@contrastedmarketing.com or

476
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:22,775
go to
https://contrastedmarketing.com/

477
00:33:22,835 --> 00:33:25,055
and fill out our form to get in
touch.

478
00:33:25,415 --> 00:33:28,175
Fantastic, fantastic. So who's
your favorite team?

479
00:33:28,415 --> 00:33:29,195
Liverpool.

480
00:33:29,315 --> 00:33:33,095
Liverpool. Okay, how they've
been doing lately? Like, the

481
00:33:33,095 --> 00:33:35,795
last time I checked it was,
yeah, they had a they had a bit

482
00:33:35,795 --> 00:33:38,375
of a tragedy, didn't they, like,
couple months ago?

483
00:33:38,735 --> 00:33:44,780
Yeah, they did. That was very
sad, yeah, but yeah, the season

484
00:33:44,780 --> 00:33:50,780
just started last weekend, and
yeah, currently the reigning

485
00:33:50,780 --> 00:33:52,340
champion. So they're good.

486
00:33:53,095 --> 00:33:56,635
Fantastic, fantastic. Once
again. Douglas, thanks so much

487
00:33:56,635 --> 00:34:00,415
for your time. Take care, stay
safe and talk to you soon.

488
00:34:00,415 --> 00:34:03,055
Awesome. Thanks so much for
having me. Christian.

489
00:34:03,055 --> 00:34:06,955
All right. Bye for now.